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Crystal Waddell: Welcome back to the Simple and Smart SEO show podcast. I am here with a special guest from South Africa. We are going across the globe today. 

The Amazing Shreya LaCock, and she works for SEO For Hire as a marketing specialist. 

And we are gonna talk today all about what it looks like to hire an SEO or hire an SEO company.

So Shreya, thank you so much for being here. Welcome to the simple and smart SEO show podcast. 

Shreya LaCock: Awesome. Crystal, thank you so much for having me on. 

Yeah, we are literally on the opposite ends of the world right now. 

But it's so awesome to be able to have conversations like this and get some awesome insights from everyone.

So yeah, excited to chat away. 

Guest Background and Career Journey

Crystal Waddell: I always love hearing people's origin stories in SEO. 

And I know you're more of a marketer. 

But do you wanna just tell us how you, started at SEO For Hire and a little bit about what you do there? 

Shreya LaCock: Of course. Yeah. I actually just before getting into SEO For Hire I [00:01:00] started as a ghost writer. And studied script writing.

So I actually come from a writing background. 

And during lockdown, wrote about like 40 or 50 ghost written books for my clients and stuff. 

And I, from that. 

Started wanting to go into copywriting and was super interested in the marketing aspect. And how writing falls and becomes part of that.

Challenges and Opportunities in SEO Recruitment

Shreya LaCock: And, joined an agency. 

And I know you're going to be love talking about green flags and red flags of agencies. I have a fun story about that. 

But I actually got fired the day before my wedding. 

From a really hectic agency that was very I. They drilled a lot of rules into you and like wanted to control you a lot.

So I was actually looking for new work after that. 

And thankfully Josh from SEO For Hire found me, and reached out to me and actually poached me from that. 

And he initially had wanted someone to be on the outreach, end of things on SEO for higher side. 

So he wanted me to do a lot of loom outreach.

I was very [00:02:00] like. Charismatic on camera. So that's what got me into the role. And yeah, the company essentially was formed about a year and a half before I joined. 

And the whole aspect of SEO For Hire is to help SEO teams bolt themselves up and grow SEO teams. 

And help agencies find really strong talent for their SEO teams.

And from that, I started helping Josh and the rest of the team recruit and headhunt for SEO talent. And build up the brand that is SEO For Hire today. 

Crystal Waddell: Oh my goodness. Okay, so I remember that story of how you lost your job. Like the day before your wedding. I remember reading about that last year, I think on LinkedIn. 

And I was just like, oh my gosh, that's so crazy. 

I don't know if ironic is the right word. 

Crystal Waddell: But it's like you're a recruiter, you work for a recruiting company. 

And you know what it's like to not have a job. I think so many times, if I think about a recruiter or I think about somebody trying to hire me. 

It's like I don't want to lead with any bad story.

You know what I mean? It's like I, if I got fired, I don't wanna tell you because I'm [00:03:00] trying to get hired. 

But I find it comforting, in a way. That, recruiters are people too. 

And that you guys understand what it's like in the job market where it's not a great fit.

And so I wanna hear more about like this green flag, red flag situation. 

Shreya LaCock: Yeah, 100%. 

I actually, coming from such an experience like that was quite scared of hiring managers. 

And just seeing myself as a number on an application, or in a hiring process. 

And working within a recruitment company, specifically in SEO. It really helps me to understand.

The space that recruitment is in. And the space that recruitment serves. 

And that is to see applicants as people. 

And find them their best culture fit. 

Find them their best match. And help people find companies and teams that match with their long-term goals. And vice versa. 

Helping companies and teams match with their applicants or candidates long-term goals.

So that's a really important thing that a lot of people overlook. 

Is that [00:04:00] quick, hire fire. 

And so much money is lost in the process from the candidates and the applicants, as well as teams and companies. 

Green Flags in SEO Agencies

Shreya LaCock: So if you are looking for agencies that are promoting green flags. 

One of the best things that we always look out for is obviously, number one being the employee tenure. 

Because agencies are often like replacing their teams and stuff. 

And one of our clients actually has a really strong tenure. 

They start their teams down in Australia from, joining the academy.

Being trained and mentored up with the team as well. And then, promoting them to expanding on a global scale. 

And, they're not afraid to show people their career path. And what their career journey looks like. 

And that is such a green flag because if someone is so confident in showing how their nurturing their teams. 

You know that you're gonna get good quality from those teams as well.

Importance of Company Culture

Shreya LaCock: So that's something that, from a client side and from a sEO candidate point of view. 

You really wanna look for that in an agency as someone that is showing clear [00:05:00] career progression. 

And from that also really great company culture. 

And not in the sense of, yeah, we've got a pool table. 

We meet on a boat every Friday and have a yacht party or anything like that.

Company culture, as in, visions are aligned. Communication is prioritized. There's a lot of emphasis being placed on employee health. 

As in work-life balance. How are you training your employees? How are you training your team members, and how are you pushing them to excel in their career? 

So that you know they're staying within your company and they're not looking elsewhere for other work because they feel like they're now stagnant.

Crystal Waddell: Yeah. 

Effective Onboarding and Communication

Crystal Waddell: I think that's really great advice too for the business owner who's listening and thinking about how they're building their own team. 

Whether it has anything to do with SEO or not. 

It's like that communication is so difficult. 

It's so difficult for so many reasons. Even for people who are good communicators. 

But entrepreneurs especially, like they have so much in their brain. 

And maybe they haven't created like standard operating procedures or just really.

[00:06:00] Fleshed out the expectations of a role. 

And so when somebody comes to do the role, it's oh, wait actually that's not really what I expected. Or wanted you to do. 

And so now there's this, incongruency of what was expected or what somebody came in thinking they were gonna do.

So it's just, how have you seen companies do that onboarding? 

And just making sure that communication, you're laughing, so I'm like. Have you seen companies do that? 

Shreya LaCock: No. I was just like, thanks for asking the question. 

Hiring OS Resource

Shreya LaCock: 'cause we have a resource called Hiring os. Which is basically just a copy and paste system.

It basically helps anyone that is looking to bring on a team member. 

It has everything. 

From your job ad templates for all your different roles. 

To salary guides. Onboarding. Communication. 

Managing your team health and everything. And I can tell you that it is a lot of work. 

It's not, something as simple as, okay, cool, we're gonna figure it out down the line or anything like that.

Or, here's a job ad. If you meet the job ad requirements, K cool. 

You wanna have your SOPs in place. Before [00:07:00] anyone comes on. 

Because, just having that piece of paper. That down on paper. 

It allows someone to understand what their requirements are. What their expectations are. Before anything else. 

So I think like having, your SOPs down. Is super important.

And I think another if I can put it as a unique or niche look at it as well, is to also just network with a lot of team leads as well and see how other people are doing it. 

I think like also doing a competitor analysis and seeing how other teams are onboarding their teams properly.

We, with our hiring os, did a lot of research into how our agency and our clients are doing it. 

And comprised the best sort of advice from that. 

But if you're not interested in it, do you conduct your own research as well and just see like from your three competitors: what are they doing to keep their teams on?

Board as much as possible. 

The Honeymoon Phase in Hiring

Shreya LaCock: The biggest thing I can tell you is that we did a resource called the honeymoon phase. 

Which is when you bring on a [00:08:00] candidate. 

You have to look at a graph of the first 12 months. 

And give them that 12 months grace. 

You're gonna start off on a very high with this teammate. 

You're gonna say, okay, cool. Welcome to the team great to have you on board. 

Welcome to your dream job. This is everything you ever wanted. We love life here. 

And then the reality is gonna set in. 

And the team's gonna get stressed out. 

And you're gonna start seeing the truth come out, of how people handle stress. 

How people handle expectations.

And then it becomes a shock sort of culture. 

After the two, three month mark, things start to settle in. 

But that's when your candidates or your new teammate really can start to shine. 

And showing how they can best be an asset to the team. 

So having your SOPs in place there. 

But also having the understanding that there is gonna be a shock culture after that two or three month mark.

Because once it takes that dip. 

And your candidate comes out on the other end and everyone can breathe. They become an asset at the end of the day. 

So have that in mind as well. 

Crystal Waddell: Okay, so I have two follow up questions. We'll start [00:09:00] with this one because this is tangential and it's a little bit spicy.

Okay. 

Gender Differences in Job Applications

Crystal Waddell: Because as you were talking about the process. 

I was thinking about something I heard. About how women apply for jobs? Versus how men apply for jobs. 

And, okay. 

This is a really big generalization. 

So a man, in theory. 

Can look at a job description and be like, oh, I could do 20% of that. 

I'm gonna apply for this job. 

And women look at it and they're like, oh, I can't do 20% of this job. I can't apply for this job. 

And so I was just wondering if you've seen anything like that? 

Or I know this is really spicy. 

But it's if you don't meet all of the qualifications.

Can you still apply for that job? 

Shreya LaCock: I think Daris will be much more informed on this. 

But I'm gonna speak on Daris behalf. I've personally seen it from my side. Women are like, tend to be a little bit more hesitant when applying versus a guy. 

But that is, I think it is a generalization.

But you can definitely see that's also in terms of an experience level. 

[00:10:00] So I think younger men and females they'll, be more hesitant.

Whereas, I think if you're looking for a more senior role. 

You'll get, definitely get much more of an alignment on how.

Men and females apply to a job. 

They'll have the same questions, the same sort of requirements and expectations. 

I think they've leveled out the playing field quite well. 

And go woman power for that. 

But yeah I think from our side it's more so been yeah. I think with our senior roles that we have gotten in it's been quite like a leveled playing field, which is good.

Crystal Waddell: Okay. 

One Year Placement Guarantee

Crystal Waddell: My other question is, you talked about that honeymoon phase ending. 

And I know that you guys have a one year placement guarantee. 

And I don't know what the asterisks are there.

It's really expensive to hire the wrong person.

And I know that there's people listening who, hired somebody and had it not work out. And it's wow. A one year hiring guarantee. 

Like, how? How do you vet someone to know that they would make it through the honeymoon phase. 

Through that dip, and then come out on the [00:11:00] other side as an asset?

Shreya LaCock: Yeah, definitely. It's much easier, like within our niche of SEO to specifically hone in and identify what assets and what skill sets are gonna take this person right through to that year end. 

And become an asset for the company. But I think just, being able to have clients that have a level expectations. 

Really helps us to also, align with them. And see what they're looking for. 

And it's different with each role because you have your specific skill sets that you want to be on par. 

And you want it to be universal. If you're looking for an SEO specialist, how many years experience do you want for that?

What salary are you looking for? Are they agency or in-house? 

Do they have experience with those sort of skillsets? 

But one thing that really does help us is on our client calls. We do conduct thorough analysis on really vetting the clients. To see what they actually want.

And Josh and Darius have also mentioned this quite a few times, is that. Sometimes clients come on the [00:12:00] call and they want someone that they actually realize they need someone else for. 

And they come off the call, wanting a completely different person than what they initially had asked for. 

Because they're not asking the deeper rooted questions of, what are you looking for in the long term?

What are your weak points within your company or agency or your team? What are you currently struggling with? 

And just being presented with a and b options. 

And having to choose from that. And seeing, okay, cool. You're leaning more towards. A path that's astray from, what you actually intended.

Don't grow a team for the sake of growing a team. 

Grow the team for the sake of, scaling the business. 

And I think that's, the approach that we take when we recruit. 

And we headhunt for these SEOs. 

Are they business savvy? 

Are they going to see the bigger picture? And align with our clients' business goals?

And not just solely SEO goals? 

'cause that's a big thing that a lot of our agency owners are looking for. 

And hiring managers are looking for in 2025 now: do they have the business [00:13:00] savvyness? 

Crystal Waddell: Some sort of business acumen, right? To be able to connect what you're doing. With SEO tasks too.

Some actual outcome. Yeah. Financially right? Or revenue. Yeah. 

Okay. So let's shift here to say a business owner who is looking to hire an SEO agency. 

And I know you're more on the marketing side of your company. 

But how do SEO agencies work?

How does a business owner, who needs SEO services, how do they see green flags for that agency? 

Shreya LaCock: Yeah, 100%. 

We talked about this just before the call. 

And I wanna shout out Jessica Redmond. 

Because she just put up a LinkedIn video talking about this today. 

About someone that she chatted to who was paying, I think about 1000 pounds? For SEO services. 

And the SEO agency said to them that they were doing great.

Their SEO was improving. 

But the client had said, they're ranking number one. 

But they're not ranking number one for their brand and their products. 

She was just highlighting [00:14:00] how there's such a discrepancy in communication between SEO agencies and the communication that they're providing to clients.

And that's a big thing I think across the board. 

From when we're recruiting for candidates that are joining teams. 

And do they have that business acumen? Are they able to communicate? Because that's what agency owners are looking for right now. 

They are constantly needing to like push communication through to their clients.

One of the big things that I think like a lot of them are prioritizing is this. 

It's starting from actually pitching to clients, the potential clients. 

Are they aligned? Do they understand how, SEO works? And how does it play and align with the business?

And yeah, being able to have that sort of that proof. 

I think in terms of if you're looking for an SEO agency. And you're looking for green flags for an SEO agency. 

You wanna find an SEO agency that has a lot of testimonies and case studies that can back it up. 

But you also wanna see, what my personal advice would be: is to find them on [00:15:00] LinkedIn or Twitter and see if they have some form of personal brand.

How are they communicating online? 

Showing authority for themselves online? 

Because if they're able to do that, they'll be able to do that for your business as well. 

Seeing how they think, how they communicate, what their online presence is. 

Will really help you to understand if you can align with them and have seamless communication moving forward.

And yeah, I think even in doing that, if you hop on calls with SEO agencies, you also wanna know what their game plan is. 

What is their three month plan? 

What are they going to provide after three months? How are they gonna be communicating with you? 

How often are they going to be putting in the hours?

How is it being tracked? 

All of those things. 

One more point: is that you want to look for an agency with employees that have been there for a long time. 

And don't have like constant change of employees. So you can check... 

The name just slipped my mind now. 

But, websites where employees post about their reviews of companies and things.

Like Glass Door? 

Glassdoor, [00:16:00] yes. Thank you. There you go. 

Check Glass Door for reviews on the agencies that you're looking for. 

Because ideally you wanna be working with a manager or someone for a year, two years. 

You don't wanna keep changing a manager every few months. And then in that process, your data's lost.

Crystal Waddell: Okay. So that's a great lead in to what a lot of people may not understand is that there's different people that you could potentially work with. 

Alex: Thanks for joining us today! Come back next week for part two of Crystal's conversation with Shreya LaCock from SEO For Hire.

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