Shreya LaCock: [00:00:00] there is nothing more important than mastering your personal brand.

You want to be searched for. You wanna come up at the top. At number one. When someone searches for your name. 

And they want to see, what have you been talking about? Where have you been speaking?

What have you been doing? Where's your presence on social media? 

Roles in an SEO Agency

Crystal Waddell: Welcome to the Simple and Smart SEO show podcast, where we talk all things, brand building, SEO, helping you connect with your audience, elevate your visibility and grow your business. 

I'm your host, Crystal Waddell, here to bridge the gap between SEO strategy and real world business success. By bringing you insights, stories, and conversations from the SEO community and beyond. 

Whether you're an entrepreneur, marketer, or SEO enthusiast, this is your place to learn, share, and build a brand that stands out. 

So grab a coffee or your favorite tea. And let's dive into Smarter SEO for your business.

When you're working with an agency, and there's different people working on your account. 

That you may or may not know, and .So I was wondering if you could help us [00:01:00] understand from the bottom of the totem pole to the top. 

Like how an SEO agency works on someone's account.

Shreya LaCock: Yeah I don't have too much in insight into the actual sort of in depth of team structure of an agency. 

But on a broader sort of scale and a basis, you'll have your SEO execs at the bottom. Those are your SEOs that have had maybe a year or two years experience that are still coming out and gaining that experience.

So they'll be doing a lot of your checkbox SEO tasks. You won't ever need to ever deal with your SEO execs as a client. 

From that you'll have your SEO specialists. 

Which you might sometimes deal with still, so somewhat rarely. And they have a little bit more experience. 

Than your SEO execs.

They're doing a little bit more of the strategizing. 

And yeah, trying to pull the projects together. Who you're going to be dealing with is your SEO manager. Your SEO manager makes sure that all of your projects are going to be on time, your [00:02:00] project manager. 

They will be your sort of first line of communication as well.

And yeah, they'll give you your reports. 

Depending on your contract with them and how often they want to report. Above that is your head of SEO. Your head of SEO is the head of the department. 

Oftentimes, this role can also be quite client facing as well.

So yeah. They would also be giving you reports and things like that. 

Depending on the agency, usually it stops there at the head of SEO. And they have different heads of departments. 

But if you wanna go to an even bigger company, they'll often have a director of SEO, and a VP of SEO. 

And those are big guys. So they'll be more involved in driving the actual business of the SEO department along with the agency's business. 

Crystal Waddell: I have a funny story about that because when I talked with Daris, I was trying to figure out where I fell on this spectrum of roles, right? 

Because like so many SEOs, I'm self-taught. 

But my [00:03:00] background comes from like e-commerce and just learning over the last few years.

And so I was like, I don't even know, like where I fall on that hierarchy. 

And he really helped me figure that out. But prior to that, I was like, I saw a role for an SEO director. 

And I thought, oh, that looks fun. Like I, I could do all of those things, but I didn't know what that was.

I didn't realize it was like the top job. That was pretty funny. 

Shreya LaCock: You're counteracting the, what you said earlier with the females are scared to apply for jobs. Oh yeah. 

You had, you were like, I could do this. Yeah, 

Crystal Waddell: I talked to the recruiter for that particular company. 

And I told him, I was like, look, I don't, I didn't really know what level. Because I've never worked in a big agency. 

And so this was a larger agency. 

And he directed me into okay, this might be a better fit for you. 

As you get started before you take over the universe.

But I just, I thought it was so important to understand. What those roles look like. And who fits where. 

Because when you're hiring an agency, when you have an account manager that [00:04:00] sounds like, a high up position, in a bank that's a big deal, I think. 

But in SEO, that's actually the bottom level of the roles. 

Shreya LaCock: A hundred percent. But also I think with the director and the VP of SEO. 

Internal Promotions and Team Dynamics

Shreya LaCock: Speaking from my experience, that's generally like an internal promotion. Once you start learning the agency a lot. 

Before you then go and look for other sort of roles jumping to another agency or another team in-house to become a director or a vp.

It's usually, generally the pass to that is through internal promotion. That the agency that I was speaking about earlier from Australia, they. They do that really well. 

Like they've gotten their SEOs turned into like now MDs of certain regions. Which is, insane feats.

But those are the green flags that you wanna look for with agencies that constant promotion. Yeah, 

Crystal Waddell: and it's so funny because when I applied for that job, I thought to myself, I was like, this kind of seems like one of those jobs that if you came in from the outside. 

People probably wouldn't like you, [00:05:00] so I had that intuition. That's another thing. Yeah. That it was like if this job is a higher level position, it's probably gonna go to somebody who's been there for a while. 

And knows the company and it's a part of the vision and all those type of thing. So it's funny that you said that. 

Shreya LaCock: When we speak to a lot of directors of SEOs on our leadership webinar as well. One of the questions we do ask them is, how do you get buy-in from your teams?

Because even if it is an internal promotion, it's a big topic of conversation. 

And even to have someone externally come in and now try and get buy-in from a team. 

It's very difficult. It's a lot of listening in the beginning. 

A lot of like just absorbing, but also then knowing when to start taking charge.

But yeah. It's a lot of power play there. 

Leadership and Management Challenges

Crystal Waddell: I learned a lot coaching, and we talked about this before, on, on your weekly show. 

Managing people and coaching is so similar. Because you're dealing with egos. And you're dealing with, failed expectations. 

And just like encouraging people when they don't see their potential.

And then also [00:06:00] trying to figure out how to get more outta the one that has the potential that's not contributing. 

So those dynamics as a business owner are always there. 

I do not envy any CEO of a large company. 

Because it's almost like being a referee, like on the playing field, it's half the people are always gonna disagree with you. Or hate what you do.

There's al you're never gonna be able to make everybody happy. 

But I do really admire those leaders who are so focused on this is our goal. And this is how we're gonna get there. 

And they have such a. A great mindset of Hey, we need to focus on what's gonna get us there. And not on making everybody happy.

Shreya LaCock: Yeah, 100%. 

Again, just back to the buy-in factor. Managing people is personally one of the most difficult things you can do in a career. Every personality is different and you have the pressures from higher ups. 

And then you have the pressures from your clients. You have the pressures from business expectations and meeting goals. And then you have the pressures of also managing the team [00:07:00] below you and still showing them that you're a human being.

Yeah, it is very difficult. And in these higher positions as well, they place a lot of emphasis on two things. Which is one, being communication. 

To all different departments. Whether it's your clients or cross departmentally. Or speaking to your fellow heads of departments. Or your higher ups.

And the second thing is business acumen. 

They need to know a p and l sheet. But through the back of their hand, obviously. 

But they need to be able to understand where the agency or their team lies within the business goals. 

Where the revenues are sitting. 

And also like how they're impacting their clients. 

But like on a revenue scale and on a business scale.

I know a lot of SEOs are placing communication as a priority. 

Not just from a higher level right now. A lot of the VPs, directors, heads. 

Have been advising us to, really look for when they look for skills within their teams that they want to bring on. 

One of the biggest things they look for right now [00:08:00] is how good can your execs, SEO specialists, SEO managers. 

How good can they communicate? Because, when you get to that level, it doesn't become much of a shock factor anymore. 

And yeah, just promoting leadership skills from day one. 

And exercising those things is really important. 

Crystal Waddell: This reminds me of something else I wanted to talk to you about because hiring people, managing people. 

Is one of the hardest things in a business and to grow a business.

But now. 

Impact of AI on SEO Hiring

Crystal Waddell: In the world of AI agents and LLMs. 

There's starting to become an alternative to actually hiring for some of these positions. 

And so I was just wondering, have you guys seen that impacting the SEO agency world at all? 

And the hiring of say, lower level skilled SEOs? 

Because now there's certain tasks that AI agents can do or something like that?

Shreya LaCock: I would've initially said yes. Maybe two years ago. 

When Chat GPT first came out. And everyone was very confused about what was going [00:09:00] on. 

But we actually had someone come on our webinar recently. 

He's the global head of SEO at Swoop. 

And he was touching on this AI topic. 

About, they're actually looking for SEOs to come with AI understanding and AI knowledge. 

But also still have the basic understanding of SEO. 

So, it's not that it's taking over jobs, but the goalposts have shifted for what they're looking for in terms of skill sets for SEOs. 

I also asked him, how are you nurturing your teammates?

With learning AI and AI tools because it's constantly evolving at the moment. 

And one of the things he highlighted was just to evolve with it. 

Give them a Chat GPT account. It's $20 a month. Throw it at them and say, play around, figure it out. 

Find your own automations and stuff.

So it's so important to have the basics of SEO understanding. 

Ai isn't really there to take anyone's jobs as of yet, unfortunately. Sorry for the conspiracy theorists that want to hear otherwise. 

But it's [00:10:00] definitely been accelerating how people have been hiring and how people have been training their teams.

Jimmy even mentioned the head of SEO from Swoop. He was mentioning that SEO the way we were doing it six to 12 months ago is so different from how we're doing it today. 

And it's gonna be so different from how we do it in the next two months and even shorter than the next two weeks.

It's gonna constantly be changing. And, one of the things that a lot of team leads need to prioritize is to just adapt with it and evolve with it and find your team that is willing to adapt and evolve with that.

SEO Squad for Entrepreneurs

Crystal Waddell: That's such a great segue. 

I wanna tell everybody about the SEO squad that I have for entrepreneurs. Because we were just having this conversation in our last meeting and I was trying to explain like, look. Things are so different. 

We started with this group a year ago. And I was like, so much has changed.

Even then. The one thing that I always try to encourage entrepreneurs and side hustlers, whatever. 

The main thing that's not [00:11:00] going to change, that you can actually control. 

Is who you are. The value that you provide through your business. And a lot of times we get distracted by the shiny object syndrome, and it's oh, chat GPT is here.

It's gonna solve all our problems and da, it's no, actually, you still have to solve your problems. 

And you still have to think about what your goals are and how you're gonna get there, and how you're gonna implement this new technology to get there. 

But like you said, you have to be ready to evolve and change. 

And I just wanted to share really quick about the SEO squad because that's my weekly support group where I help entrepreneurs navigate this world of websites and brand strategies. 

And so it's a supportive place for you to grow and learn if you are an entrepreneur, side hustler or a small business owner that's just learning about SEO and you want to grow your knowledge before you hire an agency.

Wanted to pop that in there real quick. 

Okay, so just a couple final questions here because I just find this so interesting. 

Working Effectively with SEO Agencies

Crystal Waddell: This look on [00:12:00] the other side. In your opinion. 

I know this isn't necessarily what you do. 

How can a company, A business owner. Work well with the agency once they've hired them.

What kind of expectations do you think business owners should have for their SEO agencies? 

Shreya LaCock: Yeah. Great question. 'cause there's a lot of red flag SEO agencies. 

I think it's more a question of what not to do versus what to do. But 

I had Crystal Carter come on the webinar and she was talking about she's from Wix and smashes it with her personal branding. 

And absolutely kills it with working on the SEO course at the moment.

Mastering Personal Branding in SEO

Shreya LaCock: And one of the things that she mentioned, which I think applies to not just SEOs, but SEO agencies. 

Or anyone that's offering SEO services to a client. Is to master your personal brand. 

There is nothing more important, I think in my eyes. 

Personally, I'm just a bit biased as a marketing specialist. 

More important than mastering your personal brand.

And something that [00:13:00] she said that stuck with me a lot over the past few months that I've chatted to her is. 

As an SEO you want to be searched for. 

You wanna come up at the top, at number one. 

When someone searches for your name. 

And they want to see, what have you been talking about? Where have you been speaking?

What have you been doing? Where are you? 

Where's your presence on social media? 

The potential SEO agency or SEO that you're looking for. 

Are they authoritative? Do they portray trust? 

Those sorts of things. 

As cheesy as it sounds you want your SEO agency to show that as well.

One thing that I think a lot of people may be caught in right now. 

Is looking for the most resourceful option. Looking at the cheapest option, looking at the fastest option. 

Looking at who's taking, cutting things short by using AI and taking on more work than they can handle or things like that.

And I highly implore you to look away from that. Just cover your eyes and look the other way. 

Because those are the [00:14:00] red flags that are going to bite you in the long run. 

And you're going to end up going to a better SEO agency after. 

That is going to have to do a lot more work to fix that.

And that can be detrimental sometimes. So you wanna look from the start for the most authoritative people on your socials. 

Or wherever you may be looking on your community sites. 

On YouTube even. 

Where are their presences and yeah, work your way back from there. I would say like reverse engineer.

See who's showing up on your top searches on YouTube, on LinkedIn. And work your way back from there. 

And do your research from that and see who's in their networks.

Crystal Waddell: Okay. So very last question. 

When you are, taking a look at the applicants that come through, is there anything that has been like an unexpected quality? That's impressed you with SEO candidates in 2025? 

Shreya LaCock: Oh, that's a very spicy question. We honestly, genuinely speaking, we get a lot of really good candidates coming in. 

So it's like trying to see who's your favorite [00:15:00] student.

Out of a really good class of candidates. 

SEOs have been killing it. The ones that are in the good batch, they have really been killing it. So I'm not gonna specify down to one person. 

I think I'll just batch umbrella the good qualities that you'll look for in an SEO. And that is. When they come on a call, they know how to talk.

You want someone that is personable. That you can easily have a good rapport with. At first. 

There's a lot of SEOs that can sit back and be quiet. And give you one word answers. And then you're begging them for replies and things like that. 

You want someone that's going to over communicate if that is the right way to put it. 

Because a lot of SEOs right now work in remote and hybrid settings. 

Communication and being personable is two very good quality things that we look for. And especially when we're passing on a candidate over through our clients. 

That's the first thing we look for aside from getting their technical skill sets down. We also look for side [00:16:00] projects.

That's been a big thing that we highlighted in 2024.

Not looking for SEOs that are killing themselves on the sideline and overworking themselves. 

But people that are showing their passions through different side projects. Whether it be like side websites that you're doing. 

Or little articles here and there that you're publishing.

Do you have anything that like shows that's passion for SEO that we can help see. And study and know that you have the drive and what it takes to fall into a business and help the business grow. 

That's something that we definitely look for. And then naturally just, as we mentioned in the previous answer. 

AI is another thing that has now fallen into our lap and we have to.

Just deal with the beast that it is. 

And continuously be recruiting and vetting for it. So yeah if we're looking for candidates that stand out, AI and side projects and having a [00:17:00] personable persona. 

And a good communication skillset is definitely on our good books. 

Final Thoughts and Farewell

Crystal Waddell: So Shreya, thank you so much for being here. 

And just sharing all of this insider knowledge.

I think it's so fun to look inside other people's businesses and see, like what drives them. 

And how they do different things. And I know people can connect with you on LinkedIn, so I'll definitely drop that link in the show notes. 

But you guys also have a weekly video show and some other things.

Is there anything that you wanna, share where people can connect with you further? 

Shreya LaCock: Yeah, of course. 

If you are on the sort of SEO freelance side of things. Or looking for any assistance with SOPs or anything like that, we do have the hiring OS resource that I shouted out. 

So if you wanna check that out, that's on our website at SEO For Hire.

And then we also have a weekly webinar series that we host on LinkedIn. 

So if you find me, you'll find me constantly promoting it. 

But that'll be on our SEO For Hire page. And we bring in SEOs once a week from VPs, directors, all the way down to [00:18:00] SEO managers. 

To chat about how to speak to clients, how to manage teams, how to manage all expectations, and just industry insights in general.

Yeah, it's very good. If you guys wanna check that out as well. Crystal came on it. 

Crystal Waddell: I did, and that episode did really well. I was super 

excited.

Shreya LaCock: And your blog as well. So that was really great. 

Crystal Waddell: Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah, 

Shreya LaCock: the blog performed really well too. 

Crystal Waddell: Yeah, I appreciate you guys. 

It's been great to interact with you and, just follow the journey for your company. 

I take it to heart like the things that you share. 

Because if you wanna build a strong company, it really starts with strong leadership. And so I appreciate, like the insights that you guys give us on a, weekly, daily, whatever basis. 

Shreya LaCock: Of course. Thank you for having me, SEO For Hire as well on your podcast. 

And yeah, it was a great conversation.

Crystal Waddell: For you on the other side of the headphones, thank you for being here. 

And if you have any questions definitely feel free to reach out to me at hello at Simple and smart seo.com. 

And of course follow Shreya on LinkedIn .And I'll [00:19:00] have all of her links in the show notes.

So I will catch you next time. Bye bye. 

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