[00:00:00] Crystal Waddell: Welcome back to the Simple and Smart SEO Show podcast. I'm your host, crystal Wedell, so excited to have you back with us today, and you are gonna love our special guest, Ross Simmons of Foundation Marketing and distribution.io. He is Feed Founder. Of both. And also a podcaster and also a keynote speaker.

And he's gonna be the keynote speaker at Bright SEO in San Diego this year. So Ross, thank you so much for taking the time to come chat with us. Thanks. 

[00:00:27] Ross Simmonds: Happy to be here, crystal. Thanks for having me on. I'm excited to, uh, jam with you today and share some insights, hopefully that your listeners can get a lot of Yeah, it's, yeah, I 

[00:00:34] Crystal Waddell: know.

[00:00:34] Ross Simmons' Journey to Entrepreneurship

[00:00:34] Crystal Waddell: So you gotta like catch me up like I kind of just ran into you a few months ago. So what's your story? How did you end up here? How did you end up founding these companies? Yeah, keynote speaking and like give us all the tea 

[00:00:46] Ross Simmonds: procure. Yeah, so I've been obsessed with the internet from the time I was a young kid.

I ran an internet company, um, all through our university. I've always enjoyed the idea of creating things. I've been an entrepreneur since I was in [00:01:00] elementary school, creating things like board games, et cetera. Having, uh, a durag business when I was in high school, selling durag to all of my local friends and family members.

Um, running a fantasy football blog. All of those things have just kind of like compounded over time to create kind of my career. 

[00:01:16] Building a Career in Content Creation

[00:01:16] Ross Simmonds: Um, I hooked that fantasy football blog and was able to reach tons of people all over the world, and that light bulb started to go off way back then that if I created some content online, maybe I could get a job out of it.

When I graduated, it was during, like the first in our generation kind of reception. So, um, I came into a job market that was rough and I was like, I need to create content about business, about marketing, about software, about SEO, social media, et cetera, and try to. Breakthrough and get a job. So that's what I did.

I just kept creating, creating, creating, creating. And eventually more and more brands started to reach out because they were reading my ideas and they wanted me to come and work with them. Um, I live in a small little province on the east coast of Canada called Nova Scotia, where the population's [00:02:00] still left than a million people.

I was creating all of this content and brands all over the world started to fly me out to coach their C-Suite, to coach their marketing teams on how to think about these things. So that started to happen, and that started to grow my career. I realized that I can't do it all, so I started to build out a team.

Now Foundation is a content marketing firm that works with some of the biggest brands in the world, helping them scale their content engines. And as somebody who probably has undiagnosed a DD, I wanted to keep building things. So since then I've started multiple companies invested in tons of startups that have written books, have launched projects, continue to write and launch multiple podcasts.

One was on Superman, one is on, uh, business and marketing. Then most recently my newest endeavor is distribution do ai. So I am, uh, a busy person. I've also got three little ones, uh, which is also fun and uh, a joy, but that's a bit of a quick snapshot, the LDR of who I am and what I'm all about. 

[00:02:54] Crystal Waddell: Wow, that is so cool.

So, you know what I just love is that you carved out a space. For [00:03:00] yourself in the industry. And I have to be honest, like I'm trying to kind of follow in your footsteps. Maybe not the exact footsteps a 

[00:03:05] both: problem, 

[00:03:06] Crystal Waddell: but, um, I shared with you that I used to be an adapted PE teacher, so I went for special needs PE to SEO, but I just fell in love with the solving of the problems of how to get found online, you know, so my own e-commerce store.

So it's just amazing. Like I, I can't wait to read even more of what you've put out. Thank you and learn from you. So that's really awesome. 

[00:03:25] The Importance of Content Distribution

[00:03:25] Crystal Waddell: One of the things that I really enjoyed from the get go was just hearing your take on content marketing and like you probably answered this question quite a bit, so I do apologize if I'm not coming from an original angle here, but, 

[00:03:39] both: oh, no worries.

But you 

[00:03:40] Crystal Waddell: said you wouldn't plant seeds in your garden and never water them again. So I wanna talk about that and the fact that, um. A lot of the content that we create just kind of sits there stagnant. 

[00:03:51] both: Yeah. 

[00:03:51] Crystal Waddell: And I think that people struggle with the watering part and especially now that AI is changing, like how fast those seeds can [00:04:00] grow or get ignored or need to be changed.

I don't know. So how do, what, what's your take on that and, and move forward with ai? 

[00:04:08] Ross Simmonds: I think when I looked at most small business owners or even medium sized business owners, a lot of them struggle with the same thing, and that is reach. They oftentimes have a great business, they have a great product, they have a great solution, um, but they have a, a really difficult time doing things with the thing that they can actually do really well.

And they will create, for example, a great website, or they'll create a great product and they might even record a very good Instagram reel about this thing that they developed. I see it in the real estate industry all the time, where realtors have this great property, they'll record this cool video, they put it up on red on, uh, Instagram once, and then they don't do anything with it again.

Or he, an e-commerce owner or one of my friends just, they run a, um. Uh, a a oatmeal bar company, and she has an amazing product, and she'll create these cool reels, but she'll put it out once and never do anything with it again. And the [00:05:00] problem with that is, folks, if you have a story worth telling, you have to recognize how big the world is and how many people you're actually reaching by putting up one post.

If you put up a post and you reach 500 people, congratulations. That's great. If you put up that same post two weeks from now, guess what? You're going to reach another 500 people. Ensure there might be a little bit of overlap, but you might reach an additional 300 people that you didn't reach the first time, and that playbook of taking things that you have done in the past and constantly re sharing them, it's something that I want more and more organizations, more people, more brands, more entrepreneurs to really tap into because they're oftentimes sitting on goals, but they don't do anything with it.

That is something that really gets me excited about the, the possibilities of making change is like so many people have great ideas. So many people have great businesses, so many people have great stories, great content that they've created. Content that could have actually helped someone. But the only reason why it hasn't done that thing is because they don't have the courage to promote [00:06:00] it over and over and over again.

[00:06:02] Overcoming Fear and Promoting Content

[00:06:02] Ross Simmonds: But the fear of being disliked or unfollowed, which is absolute chaos in my mind, I think everyone needs to get over this idea of fear online and be more open to promoting themselves, sharing themselves. Um. 

[00:06:16] Crystal Waddell: Yeah. You know, and it's interesting you talked about like, you know, some a DD, like, I think I have some of those as well.

I think it's kind of like a common denominator of a lot of business owners at odds for sure. Yeah. But you know, even as a teacher, you know, one of my favorite times of the year was the very beginning of the year where I can make a bulletin board, you know? Right. And I could create something new. And you know, I wasn't a very good teacher because I always wanted to make it fresh, you know, like.

Right. The other teachers, the veteran teachers were just looking at me like, why are you working so hard? Yeah. Because I never understood the idea of like a content refresh or, you know, using something again and maybe just building on that thing rather than reinventing the wheel completely. It's like having a system in [00:07:00] place to where I could just build on what I've already created.

So like to me, that's what one of the biggest problems is with content. It's not just right. The content itself, but first part, not having to reinvent the wheel all the time. Just having that revelation. Yeah. And then second, having a system of repurposing, you know, because it feels like it just falls in that digital black hole of like, I forgot I even made that.

[00:07:22] Ross Simmonds: Right. A hundred percent. 

[00:07:24] Balancing Content Creation and Promotion

[00:07:25] Ross Simmonds: And I think that is one of the bitchy things that a lot of people. Um, don't operate with. It's like we create this content calendar around what should we create next? What should we do next? What's the next thing I have to create? And then we get on somewhat of a, a hamster wheel of creation.

When in reality we need to incorporate within our process and our time, not just time to create, but also time to repurpose, to repromote, to amplify those other things. So I would encourage people to ask themselves like, what is the ratio that you have on a day-to-day basis around creation versus distribution?

And most, most people will say that. They spend 90% district creating their [00:08:00] content. 90% is like coming up with the idea, coming up with the reel, coming up with the blog post, coming up with the podcast, recording the podcast, and 10% is absolutely promoting that thing. And that's where that garden analogy comes through because it's like, okay, so you spend all of your time planting the seed, but you spend no time taking care of it.

If you have taken the time and energy to create something, you have literally exchanged the most valuable thing that we as humans have, which is time. If you've given up your time to do something, that thing that you have created is now an asset. So how do you get that asset in front of more people?

There's only one way, and that is distribution. So you have to fit your behaviors to actually be connected back to this concept of I've created something of value. More people need to see it. Unless you don't think it's good, if you don't think you've created good things, don't do it. Don't promote it. But that's a different problem, right?

If you actually believe that what you have created is worthwhile seeing that it could help somebody, then you have zero excuse why you [00:09:00] shouldn't be promoting it. And some people are listening to this, and they've been creating already for eight, seven months this year. They might not need to create anything else the rest of the year.

They might just need to promote the things that they've already done and that will get them to feeling like, oh no, I have to always create, but that is a false mentality. Some people are sitting on already all the gold that they need. That goal just needs to get distributed and they need to promote those too.

[00:09:24] Crystal Waddell: Yeah. I think sometimes too, when you're so close to your own stuff, you know, like you're used to hearing about it or you've, you've seen that post and so you assume that everybody's seen that post, you know, like they don't wanna see that post again. A hundred percent. So what is, what is kind of like a, like a nice cadence then to like, you know.

Yeah. 'cause it's like, I don't want to post the same thing five times today and five times tomorrow or whatever, but how can I. How can I keep that working for me in a way that won't become, you know, redundant or, or bad practice? 

[00:09:54] Ross Simmonds: Yeah, great question. So I think there's a few ways to think about it. In one way, you should do [00:10:00] like a, you should have a cadence associated with old assets.

So if you have 10 pieces, then you have 10 posts that you can use to promote over the course of the next few weeks, all of those other things. So there's a gap in between that post being a repeat. For like 10 posts. So you have 10 posts in between there. If you have five, then that's your, that's your cycle.

If you have two, then yes, you do need to create a little bit more content. But typically it's like every five posts you can re-circle, reuse something from the old. In addition to that, I think there's always time for everyone to do a little bit of self-reflection and ask yourself that post that I did, that podcast that I created, that YouTube video, how many views do you actually have?

You have 400 views. How many people are in the world? How many people in the world would actually benefit from the story that you have? And then subtract 400 and tell me if that's give a substantial number because it probably is like we're talking about billions of people. It's close to impossible unless you are like Beyonce or Taylor Swift to reach everybody that you can try to connect [00:11:00] with.

So in that, for that reason, I think most people just need to over promote. Um. It's impossible. And from that, I've seen, I've never seen someone share too much. Good content. You can share too much bad content, 100%. If you are putting a bad content, then people will unfollow you. They'll block you. They'll say, I don't want to lift into this anymore, but if what you are actually promoting is really good.

No one will get mad at you. Mm-hmm. 

[00:11:26] Crystal Waddell: Well, and another thing I feel like as a, a small business owners and entrepreneur, when you're doing your own social media and stuff like that, you, uh, you tend to lean into the promotional side of, or just 

[00:11:39] Ross Simmonds: always, you know, or, 

[00:11:40] Crystal Waddell: or like the, the not sales side, you know what I mean?

It's more the marketing. Yeah. So it's like, okay, how do you, how do you balance the, the marketing and the fun stuff with the, Hey, buy my stuff, posts. 

[00:11:52] Ross Simmonds: Right, right. Yeah. 

[00:11:53] The Four S Framework for Content Creation

[00:11:56] Ross Simmonds: So I think the, the philosophy that I always talk about, it's called the four S. So the four S are this [00:12:00] framework that I use around content creation.

For any business, any account, you need to create content that is educational, engaging, entertaining, or empowering. Any of that type of content that you promote and you create is going to resonate with folks, and you should share that content as much as possible, however. Amidst all of this, if you are giving tons of value to people, give, give, give, give, give tons of entertaining content, tons of engaging content, educational content, let's use the the wooden letters as an example.

I'm gonna educate people on the process that I go through as a creator, and I'm gonna educate them on how I do the work. That's very captivating for people. Engaging content is telling people about the journey. Oh, I just got this new project. Let me tell you a little bit around how I'm going to bring this to.

To life for this client. That's an engaging story. Entertaining. Maybe you create something that's funny. Maybe there's a funny word that you create. There's something that's like, Hey, let me show you this. Let's see if you can guess before I get to the fourth letter, what letter I'm, what I'm building, or some [00:13:00] variation.

So that's entertaining. Then there's empowered. Maybe you surprise a kid or you surprise a school sports team or a sports athlete who just got into a new university or a campus that you're gonna surprise them with a gift. That becomes an empowering story where you're celebrating somebody else. So you do all of that.

Your followers go up, people are interested, they're engaged, they're like, I, I wanna see more. I wanna see more. And then. Underlying all of this, you can have the call to action on your profile. You have the call to action in the message where you're like, if you want to have something like this, send me a dm.

The dms are open. It's subtle, but it's powerful, right? So those types of messages intertwined within your story and your narrative, I believe is the playbook. So you ask me a very short question and then I gave you a very long answer. So let me try to put this on a quick for sticker for people, because I know I went along there.

Um, give as much as possible. Give as much value as possible. Always strive to add value and suddenly reference your business throughout and value will find you back. I'm a big believer that if you get value to the internet, the [00:14:00] internet gives you value back, and that is, that has been how I've built my career.

When I go into communities about marketing and business, when I go on stage and I speak at an event, I give away all my ideas for free. I give away all my content. I give it all away, and my hope. Someone's gonna hear it and they're gonna be like, I can't do that, so let me just get him to do that. I like that.

I can do it though, Rob. Let's talk. And that's how, how you win and that's the approach. 

[00:14:22] Crystal Waddell: Yeah. And trust me, no one who's as is in their right mind is gonna sit there and say, Hey, why don't you tell me less about how to make my business better? So I really appreciate like Right, you stay a hundred percent.

Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. And something I noticed too about the difference in content marketing on social now is like, like you said, instead of necessarily saying, oh, the link is in my bio, like in the caption. It's DM me and I thought that's something that's really important to highlight for people, that there's been that shift of like staying on platform wherever you're at.

Yeah. So I just wanted to point out that you said that it's the key. It's 

[00:14:57] Ross Simmonds: a great poll. Yeah. It's a massive shift in [00:15:00] behavior, um, that I don't think a lot of folks have woken up to. I even struggle with it because when I'm thinking about channels and as the like entrepreneur who's on the, like, I still kind of view.

Instagram as like, this is my like personal space and Facebook is my personal space, but you get Vs. From folks who are truly just like trying to do business on these channels. And I think it's, uh, the math of shift and everyone needs to just be okay with it. The tools like ManyChat and stuff like that make it even easier today to, to do it, but.

It's a, it's a wild, wild wife now. It's uh, it's cool. I love shifts. I love change or I wouldn't be in this industry. Yeah, 

[00:15:35] Crystal Waddell: it keeps it exciting. Right. And I've signed up for MiniChat. I haven't fully optimized everything like I need to. I also use go high level for. Well, my personal business side of things where I help people with their SE and stuff like that, and they have a version of MiniChat that I haven't explored yet.

So I thought that was cool, but that's, you know, that's something on the never ending to-do list, as I like to say, you to learn about and explore at some point. Okay. So you are [00:16:00] the content strategist or you know, you have a content company in essence. How does that intersect with a or with SEO and like.

The fact that you're speaking at Bright SEO. 'cause I'm like, we're going off on the internet talks and I'm like, 

[00:16:11] Ross Simmonds: no. Great question. Yeah. 

[00:16:13] The Role of SEO in Content Marketing

[00:16:13] Ross Simmonds: So I'm a believer, and I will get a lot of slack for this, that content marketing is an overarching, um, field and FEO is a field within content marketing. I believe that content is the foundation of the internet.

I think content is kind of the foundation of humanity. When you go back into the ancient text and you think of the thing that keeps all of us connected, it's stories, it's content, hieroglyphic, all of that stuff. It's content, it's words, it's ideas, it's theories that are passed on from human to human and that we continue to path on.

We distribute, blah, blah, blah. All of those things. So to me, content marketing is the overarching element of using content to drive business results. And FEO is a way to optimize some of the content that we produce as marketers, as businesses, as [00:17:00] organization. So when I look at a lot of our clients at found.

I'd say probably 50 to 60% of them are doing a blend between content marketing and SEO work. They're doing social media, some of them are doing, um, paid. We do have Reddit, we have GEO projects, a wide range, but it's all content. And SEO is a part of that equation. Um, I've been in SEO for probably 15 years.

Um. I've seen a lot of changes. I've seen a lot of shifts, but I have never, and will never really say that I am just a pure play. SEO. I'm not. There's some brilliant minds in this industry and in this place that have more than 15 years of clearance or have even less than 15, but they are practitioners of the SEO craft.

I am not that. I am a content marketer first who understands enough to be deadly NSEO and not to be deadly inte in all of the other areas. Um, and bring it all together and then bring in brilliant people to do certain elements of course, as well. [00:18:00] Um, but I'm, I wouldn't say I'm a proper true nothing but SEO, um, but I love all those who are, and, uh, yeah, that's kind of where, where I'm at in it.

So, 

[00:18:10] Investing in Different Content Types

[00:18:10] Crystal Waddell: if SEO falls under the umbrella of content marketing, how does it influence content marketing? 

[00:18:17] Ross Simmonds: So if you create, let's say there's two different types of blog posts that you can develop in marketing. There's a bunch, but that's the time we created two blog posts. One blog post might have the pure intention of driving social shares, so it doesn't matter if this piece write in Google, it doesn't matter if this piece ever gets organic visit from FEO or Google in general, from content.

That you develop should be, if you look at your marketing strategy exclusively created because you wanted to get star, you want it to be shared inside of a um, organization. So you're doing like a BM style content. Some of the content has that so intent. However, on the eth NO side, there is some content that you are creating exclusively with the intention of capturing the demand [00:19:00] associated with the volume of people typing in a query or of breathing Google.

Or now with the rise of AI influencing the LLM, so they can consume that content and articulate it back to your user in a certain way. So when you have that mental model where we stop as marketers thinking that everything needs to be f eed, or everything needs to go viral, we're able to think holistically around how different assets have different goals.

The same way as an investor would think about their marketing, their investment mix. So I love investing in thinking about business. From an investing lid. You can create content with a certain goal. You can invest in certain assets with a different goal. Thumb stock will give you dividends. Thumb stock will give you high growth.

High rewards thumb, a bit will be low margins growth. Some people are willing to invest in crypto. Some people are willing to invest in real estate. Some people are willing to invest in bonds. Some people are willing to invest in early stage startups. The opportunities to invest in different things are significant.

[00:20:00] The same exists under the content marketing umbrella. You can invest in memes for LinkedIn. You can invest in SEO blog posts. You can invest in lead gen assets. You can invest in calculators, you can invest in landing pages, you can invest in email marketing, in videos, in podcasts, in YouTubes. All of these things are asset classes within the content world that you can invest in.

They all have different outcomes, different risks, different costs, all of those different things. 

[00:20:27] Crystal Waddell: So a quick question then about like say AI overviews or any sort of LLM, like chat, GPT. 

[00:20:35] Adapting to AI and Search Engine Changes

[00:20:35] Crystal Waddell: How do you feel about the fact that they take this content and generate their own answer without sending the user to the site or the source?

[00:20:45] Ross Simmonds: It is a fundamental shift in the way that we think about search and discovery and organizations and businesses have to react. Um, the question is how do you react because the cat head of the bag, this isn't going back. We'll never see 10 blue links on the [00:21:00] front end of Google probably ever again. We're going to continue to see answers directly in the search engine results page.

I think in the future you're actually going to even left clicks going directly to domains, and you're going to have transactions happening directly to Google. I envision a world where I'll say to Google, buy me tickets to the Philadelphia Eagles game next Tuesday, and it will do it. I won't have to click on anything.

I don't have to click on whether I want to get my ticket free. This ticket software or this ticket software, I think it's going to purchase it and it's gonna show me two tickets and I get to select with what I want. I think that's the world that we're going into and. I don't think there's anything slowing that down.

So what does that mean for businesses? 

[00:21:38] Future of Content and AI Integration

[00:21:38] Ross Simmonds: I think for businesses brand becomes more important than ever. Deeper connection with your customers becomes more important than ever. Having own channels where you control your direct influence on your customers matter more than ever, but also from an SEO lens, I think now is the back time outside of yesterday.

To create a significant amount of content that can be cited by the [00:22:00] LLMs and ultimately influence the future LLMs, and thus, we should be creating content now that the future you will be grateful exists because the LLMs are gonna scrape it and use it to answer questions. So I don't love. But I'm not someone to sit here and say, woe is me.

That sucks. I, the world is crumbling and complaining. I'm more of let's take a proactive approach and let's go win. And the best way to win right now is to double down on storytelling content, creating assets that are really unique to you, and then being intentional with producing as many as you can, which is easier now than ever because of AI that will potentially impose the alarms.

So. That's where I'm at with it. 

[00:22:42] Introduction to E-commerce Challenges

[00:22:42] Ross Simmonds: What's your thoughts? I know it's the wild world. I'd be curious, Chris, but where's your head at on all of this? Well, 

[00:22:47] Crystal Waddell: because I have a small e-commerce company, you know, I'm a small, I, I, I'm a manufacturer. I hand make or manufacturer with a machine. Everything that comes from our business, you know, I'm, you know, right.

[00:22:58] SEO and Revenue Insights

[00:22:58] Crystal Waddell: My, my biggest [00:23:00] priority since I started learning about SEO was like, do I see my revenue going up? 

[00:23:05] both: Right. 

[00:23:05] Crystal Waddell: And I first also had to fix my pricing because as the revenue went up and profits didn't go up, I thought, okay, we got a problem here too. Yeah. So once I fixed that, 

[00:23:13] both: right, 

[00:23:13] Crystal Waddell: right. I go back to looking at, okay, this is how many visits I've gotten.

How does the revenue compare year over year to last year? 

[00:23:22] Traffic Quality and Revenue

[00:23:22] Crystal Waddell: And I mean, I'm a very small case study, but the traffic to my site in general has been down anywhere between 40 to 60%. I mean like 4,000 less visits. You know the numbers, it's a lot. It's a lot, but the revenue is only down 5%. Right. So, you know, there's a few different, you.

The 

[00:23:42] Ross Simmonds: intent is still high. Yes. 

[00:23:44] Crystal Waddell: And there's a few different things you could take away there. It's like, okay, I'm actually getting better traffic. You know, like they kind of freaked off some of the traffic that wasn't gonna buy anyway and there'd be some other, you know, factors there. So I, I don't see it as a bad thing.

I see myself, like you said, getting more high [00:24:00] quality. The intent intent's, cool buyers and you know, of course I wanna make up that 5% because I never wanna be at a decline. 

[00:24:06] Ross Simmonds: A hundred percent. Yeah. That brings up 

[00:24:07] Crystal Waddell: another set of questions beat up. 

[00:24:09] Ross Simmonds: Right. 

[00:24:09] Diversification Strategies

[00:24:11] Ross Simmonds: Well, I think that comes down to the, and I don't know deeply around like your revenue source and then where it comes from, but to me, I think that that challenge that so many are going through should open up the eyes, in my opinion, to a clear solution, which is diversification.

Mm-hmm. So again, it's like investing and investing. If you want to have low risk, you need to diversify your investment. So as a business owner, if I want to diversify my revenue streams and the opportunities, instead of playing the game of just Google, maybe I need to diversify. So I start to show up on TikTok.

Maybe I need to make sure that I show up on Etsy. Maybe I need to show up on Pinterest. Maybe I need to start showing up on other channels where there is demand for these types of things, and that people have high intent. And if you can do that, you set yourself up long term to be in a better situation because.

[00:24:57] Changing Search Behaviors

[00:24:57] Ross Simmonds: Discovery also no longer happens [00:25:00] just on Google for so long, Google was the true sole source for all E-commerce queries, for all bottom of funnel queries. Like people still don't get me wrong, I love Google. I think Google's still the number one and it's still crushed in it, but there has been a shift. I don't use Google to find out what, where this shirt, what shirt I should wear.

I'm using Instagram search and I'm going to find a whole bunch of people who are cooler than me wearing cool clothes. And then I'm gonna go and try to reverse engineer where they bought it from and I'm going to, when I'm trying to figure out how to improve my golf swing, I'm not going to Google anymore.

I'm going to Instagram and I'm typing in golf swing tips, and then I'm going to learn, or I'm going to YouTube. People's search behaviors have stiffened. We as marketers and business owners have to put ourselves in the customer's shoes and think like, where, where are people actually looking for this?

Like a few months ago, I was in, um, in Diego, and I was looking for a restaurant, old fashioned raw. 10, 15 years ago would've went to TripAdvisor and I would've went on TripAdvisor. I would've sorted by top. I I would've seen a whole bunch of sponsored restaurants that said where they should go, blah, blah, blah.

I might've went to Google Maps and went with that. Nope. I [00:26:00] said I'm gonna be hit. Where are the hip people? They're on TikTok, so let me go to TikTok and type in cool places to eat in this city. Then I have seen all of these cool people talking about all these cool restaurants, the ready, you think I went, I went where they told me Google did not see any queries for me.

They never will again when it comes to clues. Um, but that's the type of experience that I think people need to optimize for. So again, if I'm in your shoes, I'm thinking, where are people thinking about doing this type of research for like boy carvings and stuff like that? Probably Pinterest, probably in Instagram.

Probably TikTok, like those are channels that they're probably spending time. So how do I influence that? Same way. Same SEO fundamentals, except apply to a different channel. 

[00:26:38] Crystal Waddell: Yeah. Oh man. Okay. 

[00:26:39] Omnichannel Marketing Success

[00:26:42] Crystal Waddell: So I've gotta throw it to our sponsor here in just a second, but I wanted to share a short story of this. Yeah.

Because this happened to me probably like four years ago, and I've talked about this before. So you know, before this whole idea of omnichannel. Marketing was, you know, so big or whatever. And then obviously the LMS picking up [00:27:00] everything. I had a person from Australia who was looking for a rugby poster and well, she found the poster that she liked on Pinterest and she clicked through and somehow ended up on my Facebook page and messaged Absolutely, yeah.

Messaged me on my Facebook page and we talked there, and then she ended up buying on my website, but. Wild. There was at least two places where she messaged me, but she got the same me. And so my message to small business owners in particular is like with, because you have limited means, you know, most important thing that I found for myself is that people find the same me wherever they go.

So it's not necessarily like if I don't have the capacity to create all of this amazing content, if I can at least show up with consistent content. They're like, oh, that's Crystal. You know, that's Roger Wood. Right. Whatever. That's the girl that I was, you know, looking at her stuff over here. Yeah. I recognize that brand for sure.

And so I feel like that has been something that's really helped me over the last few years, and I've been so excited about, because [00:28:00] when you become recognizable, you know you can still compete. Yeah. It's. And people have often thought that our business is much bigger than it is. You know, like I'll, I'll get an email and say, I was chatting with someone about X white thinking and I just wanted to make sure that that was still gonna happen.

And I'm like, oh yeah. You know? 

[00:28:15] Ross Simmonds: Right. Yeah. I'll talk 

[00:28:16] Crystal Waddell: to her about that. Right. You know, 

[00:28:18] Ross Simmonds: meeting with yourself in a few hours. Exactly. Yeah. 

[00:28:20] Crystal Waddell: So speak it a collage of wood love. Let me go ahead and tell you about that. Your walls are bored, so let's fix that. Collage and wood. We'll cut your logo big, bold, and beautiful so that your home office screams, this is my brand.

It's perfect for Zoom bragging rights and making your space 100% you. So get started today@collageandwood.com and create a backdrop you'll love. So yeah, collage and wood, we make all sorts of stuff, which is pretty cool. I've had, I like to focus on the athlete stuff. As a manufacturer, we can cut out anything.

So that part's fine. 

[00:28:53] both: I thought we, 

[00:28:53] Crystal Waddell: okay. Very cool. So let's go back to content distribution. 

[00:28:57] Content Distribution and LLMs

[00:28:57] Crystal Waddell: When you distribute content across [00:29:00] these platforms and you diversify, like you said, how does that impact your visibility and LLMs? Yeah, 

[00:29:05] Ross Simmonds: so we recently have start, it was probably a year and a half ago now. We started to crack.

Um, the various sites that are being cited by the LLM. So when an LLM gets a query or a prompt from a user, they do this thing called a fan out, where they take your question, then they ask you like 20 or 50 different ways they use typically like a Bing or some other search engine to do that search. And then they're going out and they're grabbing information from the various URLs.

Translating that looking for, uh, signals that this is the response that is appropriate and then it gives it back to you. If you are creating multiple assets on multiple domains, for example, linkedin.com or reddit.com, we have seen that those domains as well as medium.com and Quora. Are showing up more and more frequently in the citation.

So as a brand, you need to be thinking, okay, how do we increase the likelihood that we are being talked about on these channels, or that we're creating content on these channels that align with the message that we want to [00:30:00] be delivered to people who are using LLMs? By creating, distributing, or prompting people to create that type of content, you have the ability to influence the LLMs because you're shifting the narrative and the opportunity.

Sample size for yourself could be cited and for your story to be articulated in the appropriate measure. So that's the way that we've been thinking about it. 

[00:30:21] Crystal Waddell: Wow. So it's so interesting 'cause it's like, maybe you can't do, you can't control everything, but you can influence a lot of things. 

[00:30:29] Ross Simmonds: That's right.

It's impossible to control. Like I think that's, if someone tells you, Hey, we can control the LLMs, they're, they're lying to you. Um, we can increase our probability. Of having the right message articulated at the right time, and it's, uh, a probability game and a likelihood game that is connected directly to what levers you're able to pull.

Um, gas blogging is back, right? Like Yeah. I think back in the day, gas blogging was considered a dead tactic in ethno, but because there's opportunity to have multiple blog posts speaking on a [00:31:00] certain topic, and if you can write things and articulate things that are positive for your brand and Google. Or tattoo BT or perplexity or cloud, et cetera, or scraping that you have an opportunity to be cited in a guest blog post as well.

So I think that's the way that people should be thinking about it is like get as many, um, opportunities that articulate your message in your way as possible on the internet so you can influence the outlines. Yeah, 

[00:31:24] Crystal Waddell: and I also appreciate your definition of fan outs because I've seen that online and I was always, you know, meaning to kinda.

Click, 

[00:31:31] Ross Simmonds: right? What does that mean? What does that mean? But that was the best 

[00:31:33] Crystal Waddell: explanation that I've seen, so I really appreciate that one. Thank 

[00:31:35] both: you. 

[00:31:35] Crystal Waddell: What about like, because things are changing so fast and like, like how do you stay focused and committed to a strategy without being like, oh, gotta do that now.

Gotta do that? 

[00:31:46] Ross Simmonds: Yeah, it's tough. 

[00:31:47] Focus on Excellence

[00:31:50] Ross Simmonds: It is so difficult to differ from when you're a small business because, um. There's so many opportunities, but there's only so much time. And for me, I go back to a quote that my dad used to say all the time, and he would say, it's better to have one good kid than two bad. [00:32:00] And I think the same thing exists with this whole mix.

Like it's better to be really, really good on one channel where you are crushing it, you're influencing it, you're moving the needle. You can see the ROI every time you do things, then go try something new and be average mediocre at best or bad. And. Waste your time there. So to me it's be focused upfront on being excellent on one channel, own it, be great, drive it.

Take Crystal's, the advice of promoting and being the same on other channels. So if you are excellent on LinkedIn, take the same LinkedIn stuff and shared on Twitter. Take the same thing shared on Instagram. You might not be following best practice, but it's better than not. So just do that. But there'll be excellent all in one.

And then let's say you now. Just happen to find a way to get additional time in your life. Now let's experiment with Instagram. Let's try something. Because now you have the time and the availability to do it. That's when you open yourself up. So you have to manage your time because it's limited and you have to be very focused on striving to be excellent first and then [00:33:00] moving on to the next one.

Yeah, 

[00:33:00] Crystal Waddell: I'm laughing over here to myself because I'm like, that would make a great t-shirt better than nothing. 

[00:33:05] both: Yeah, exactly. I love that to 

[00:33:07] Crystal Waddell: come say hi. Right. Do 

[00:33:08] both: it. 

[00:33:08] Crystal Waddell: Okay. 

[00:33:09] Rapid Fire Questions

[00:33:13] Crystal Waddell: So I told you that there was like, we're gonna have like a rapid fire section, and so ideally you'll give me a one word answer, but if you feel really passionate about it and just need to riff on it right then that's fine.

Or we can come back and touch base on it, but right. 

[00:33:23] Ross Simmonds: I'm gonna do my best to do one or two word answers. Perfect. 

[00:33:26] Crystal Waddell: Yeah, we'll see how it goes. So, yeah. Okay. So number one, S-E-O-G-E-O-I-D-C or 

[00:33:33] Ross Simmonds: I-D-K-D-E-O-S-E-O 

[00:33:38] Crystal Waddell: is dying. Yes or no? 

[00:33:40] Ross Simmonds: No. 

[00:33:40] Crystal Waddell: SEO is dead.

Gini perplexity, Claude. Chat, GPT or something else. 

[00:33:46] Ross Simmonds: Chat, GPT. 

[00:33:47] Crystal Waddell: Best use case for AI in SEO,

[00:33:50] Ross Simmonds: getting lead patterns, 

[00:33:52] both: AI agents, hype or breakthrough. 

[00:33:55] Ross Simmonds: Breakthrough. 

[00:33:55] both: Google AI. Overviews. Good, bad, or ugly.

[00:33:59] Crystal Waddell: [00:34:00] I'm good jobs in SEO or content marketing that AI is most likely to take in 2026 

[00:34:07] Ross Simmonds: writers 

[00:34:07] Crystal Waddell: jobs least likely to be taken, 

[00:34:10] Ross Simmonds: right? It is 

[00:34:10] Crystal Waddell: best AI powered app for SEO that no one knows about.

[00:34:14] both: Yeah.

Yes. Did you say 

[00:34:16] Crystal Waddell: pass? I did. Cool. Well, that just means you haven't created it yet. 

[00:34:19] Ross Simmonds: That's true. That is true. 

[00:34:21] Crystal Waddell: So was there anything that I asked there that you wanted to revisit or explain and expound on a little bit. 

[00:34:26] Ross Simmonds: Let, let's go into this fleet thing. Thank you. Like people are probably saying, why in the world did you say that?

Yes. 

[00:34:31] Optimizing Personal Life

[00:34:35] Ross Simmonds: I think we as SDOs as marketers, spend way too much time think about how to optimize our. Websites and not enough time thinking about how to optimize their actual human lives. Like we need to optimize for our sleep, we need to optimize for our health. Like we think about these clicks and links way too much, and we think about our REM sleep way too little, and I think that is the biggest problem.

Everybody's cranky because they're not sleeping enough, so they need to sleep. Uh, have a nap or [00:35:00] something. 'cause it's craz there. Well, it, y'all need to be easier on yourself. You need to chill out. Yeah. That's my message. Like, folks need to have a nap and chill. 

[00:35:08] Crystal Waddell: I'm a huge fan of naps, you know, typically, I usually take a nap every day.

But that, that was, I think that was one of the things I wanted to ask you about earlier, because. As we get access to chat GPT. Yeah. And Gemini, all of the things, whatever, and we're asking more and more questions and it's all synthesizing in place. It's like how, how do we overcome the urge to do more with the time that we earn back?

You know? Rather than just being like, oh, we earn this time back. Now we can go spend time with our family or friends. 

[00:35:37] Ross Simmonds: Right? Yeah. Yeah. I think you have to find, I think everyone. Has to figure out what is right for them. Everyone's balance is different. Like when you, if you were talking to 24-year-old ros, he was going aggressive intentionally every single day.

Mostly let me work until I crashed. That was okay. So I was 24. That was worked. I worked. However, today after I'd kind of already established [00:36:00] my family, I've got other priorities. I can't just grind until late into the evenings. If I do, I'm gonna have a headache. I've gotta find my own balance. Like I need to figure that out.

So I think for me, and the advice that I give everybody, it's figure out what is, what will work for you? What will work for you in your personal situation, in your life, and this time, in this chapter, in this era for you? And then make sure that you're good. Like you have to be good if you're happy, if you're content, if you are satisfied with where you are, and you are feeling good, that you're going in the direction that you are trying to achieve.

Keep going. Don't worry so much about all the other stuff, just like stay focused, keep going, do your thing. Um, but also my biggest piece of advice to anyone is to live by a calendar. The calendar is probably the greatest invention of human history, but so many people ignore it. We all should live by our calendar.

I reflect on my calendar at the end of each week to see if my energy has been allocated to the things that are most important to me, whether that's work, my family, my friends, my own [00:37:00] personal development, my health, my wealth, all those things. I reflect on it and if it's off, then next week it's gonna be right, because I'm gonna look ahead at my calendar.

I'm. We, I'm gonna take off the morning Tuesday. I'm going to make extra time to find time to go for a run, whatever it might be. Um, I'm gonna do a tea party with my daughters next week. Like these little things you need to find in your calendar, I think, anyway, everybody does a different. I'm just think calendars are calendars rule everything around me, shit.

Or to Wu-Tang that I've modified your, your thing. Um, and that's the approach that I take. It's just like, live by the calendar. 

[00:37:30] Crystal Waddell: Yeah. Well, I love that you said that because you, you could just say live by the calendar, but then you gave some context and some examples of how you do it. And I think that's what people need more than anything.

Not just context, but just like, okay, what does this look like in practice? You know? And those are some great tips. Yeah, a hundred percent. So 

[00:37:47] both: thanks. Appreciate it. Yeah. Oh 

[00:37:48] Crystal Waddell: my goodness. Okay. 

[00:37:49] Conclusion and Contact Information

[00:37:49] Crystal Waddell: So thank you so much Rasper for spending this time with me today. I feel 

[00:37:54] Ross Simmonds: No worries. So 

[00:37:54] Crystal Waddell: grateful. I wanna say thank you so much for that.

And, um, if people are interested in connecting with [00:38:00] you, following you and just, you know, kind of seeing what you're up to online, can they get in contact with you? 

[00:38:05] Ross Simmonds: Yeah, find me on LinkedIn, on Instagram, on X. Whatever channel you can think of. I'm probably there. Just do a quick search for Rock SimMan, but definitely check out to book as well.

Create one just should be forever. Um, it's a great book for folks to check out. We're talk a little bit more deeply on some of the theories and the ideas that we had today, um, but Crystal showed it to you. Thank you having me on. I really enjoyed this interview today and I hope your listeners get a lot out of it and I appreciate what you're doing for.

It's all business owners bringing education to their ears. So thank you for having me. Thank 

[00:38:32] Crystal Waddell: you. And I will definitely put a link to the book in the show notes. Thank you guys for joining us today, and Ross, thank you again. Appreciate you being here. 

[00:38:41] Ross Simmonds: No worries.