[00:00:00] Jamie Trull: What life do I want to create? Right? So that is the bigger thing that has driven a lot of the decisions now. Is it's less about money and it's more about like, how do I create this freedom?

And I think that that's one of the hacks of things like SEO and things like finances, right? Using data is like a hack.

[00:00:14] Crystal Waddell: Welcome to the Simple and Smart SEO show podcast.

I'm your host, Crystal Waddell, here to bridge the gap between SEO strategy and real world business success.

Whether you're an entrepreneur, marketer, or SEO enthusiast, this is your place to learn, share, and build a brand that stands out. 

So grab a coffee or your favorite tea. And let's dive into Smarter SEO for your business.

[00:00:34] Crystal: Back to the book.

[00:00:35] The Concept of Hidden Profit

[00:00:35] Crystal: So why Hidden Profit? What is Hidden profit? And what do you think is exciting about that?

[00:00:41] Jamie Trull: Well, the first thing I'll say is we had this, this book had probably a hundred different names.

So we finally landed on Hidden Profit because it felt like it encapsulated a lot of what we were really trying to get across. Which is, it's already there, the money is there, right? It's just a matter of [00:01:00] tapping into it and using it wisely, and so.

It really is a book that's dedicated to helping you find what is existing. And hidden profit. It feels more fun than, like, it's, we're, we are almost the anti hustle way to do it, right? It's like, we don't need, this is not about going out there and hustling harder, hitting the pavement harder. That's not what this book is, right?

In fact, this book is like, how do we not do that? How do we like, make this work better for us? And some of that is just optimizing some of those numbers.

It's an equation. Your profit in your business is an equation. And it's not a hard equation. It's like literally an equation my 11-year-old would understand and get.

It's just we over, we overcomplicate it sometimes, and honestly, accountants over complicate it.

I will take responsibility for that as a cpa. Like we do weird stuff like add depreciation and things to just like. You know, throw everything off.

But at the end of the day, it's like, money coming into your business minus money going out. Right?

And you can expand that formula a little bit for the profit levers.

And you can talk about, okay, it's the number of sales you make at what price [00:02:00] point, right?

Like for each of your products added together, minus your cost.

So there's various different ways you can kind of look at it, but at the end of the day, it's, it's, it's just an equation.

And sometimes we just get very lost in all of it. And so that's what I'm kind of showing is like there's, there's profit hiding in that equation.

It's already there. You just need to like tweak a few little things.

And those tweaking of a few little things, because math is amazing, right?

Like we can tweak things by like 2%. We can do, if we could couple things by like 2% and the sum of the whole can be massive.

It like literally 2% tweaks in like three or four things can lead to an over 100% increase in profit.

So that's what I just need people to understand: it doesn't have to be these big sweeping changes.

It can be.

But there is money, like real actual money. That is there for the taking. And I know that that's one of the biggest fears. We don't ever wanna be like leaving money on the table. But most of us are right?

Most of us are. And it's just a matter of recognizing that. Fixing those things and [00:03:00] then, you know, go forward, take over the world.

[00:03:02] Optimizing Business for Life Goals

[00:03:02] Crystal: I think that one of the things that helped me connect with you too is optimizing your finances.

Optimizing your business, it all

[00:03:09] Jamie Trull: Mm-hmm.

[00:03:10] Crystal: down to like, can you optimize your life? Because it's like, this, again, it's not just for mothers.

It's not just for women. But you know, if you are an entrepreneur, especially someone who left your nine to five.

[00:03:22] Jamie Trull: Mm-hmm.

[00:03:23] Crystal: don't want your new business to become the dominating presence that you left. We left for flexibility.

We left to be

[00:03:32] Jamie Trull: Yep.

[00:03:32] Crystal: to be able to set our own priorities.

I know I fell victim to this, we become... you know, ensnared by our own business. And like, oh, we can't step away.

Or, you know, I remember my, my son would say, mommy, can you play with me? I'd be like, oh no, I have to send this email or make this collage.

Or, you know, pack these numbers. And it still hurts my heart a little bit. To remember

[00:03:56] Jamie Trull: Yeah.

[00:03:57] Crystal: because it was like, wait a second. I [00:04:00] started this business so I could play, you know?

[00:04:03] Jamie Trull: Mm-hmm.

[00:04:03] Crystal: be there, and

[00:04:04] Jamie Trull: Yeah.

[00:04:04] Crystal: things.

So I feel like your teaching is just a lot about optimizing for the life that you want. Which is a mission that I personally have as well.

[00:04:12] Jamie Trull: And it's not always like I'm, I feel very strongly about the fact that there's so much messaging for these like big dreams and big goals, right?

But we are all different people and honestly, we're in different stages of life. So those big dreams and big goals shouldn't all be the same.

And I think we think for a long time when I first started my business, I thought that I had to want.

This like massive business, like to grow this big, huge thing.

And I very quickly realized like, no, I, what I wanna do is really, you know, help as many people as I can. And have financial freedom and time freedom,

[00:04:51] Crystal: Mm-hmm.

[00:04:52] Jamie Trull: And there is a way to balance those that makes sense. Where we're making enough money. Plenty of money. Have money to [00:05:00] give and do all the things that we wanna do.

But I don't need to make a hundred million dollars. I don't need to make anywhere near that. Right? For me to be happy.

And I think, like it took me a minute to, to realize like my worth doesn't come from how much revenue I make. Right. Or even how much profit I make that that's not my worth.

What life do I want to create? Right? So that is the bigger thing that has driven a lot of the decisions now.

Is it's less about money and it's more about like, how do I create this freedom?

And I think that that's one of the hacks of things like SEO. And things like finances, right? Using data is like a hack.

[00:05:34] Crystal: Yeah.

[00:05:34] Jamie Trull: It really is. 'cause it's like, okay, what's working? Let's do more of that thing that's working. You know, like. Versus just kind of doing whatever.

And then hoping, hoping something works. And so I am, I am like, I like to call myself. I'm like a very motivated, lazy person.

Like I'm motivated to be lazy. I will put in all the work up front such that later on I don't have to do it. Right?

And that doesn't mean like I still probably will work like I, [00:06:00] but I would love to be like, you know what? I can retire.

At 50. Like that would be amazing. Will I? Probably not, but I would love to be able to.

[00:06:07] Crystal: Mm-hmm.

[00:06:08] Jamie Trull: Right. And, and so like that is what drives me more than like the number I'm trying to get to. Or the revenue or the profit I'm trying to get to.

It's like, no, I'm trying to get to a particular kind of life. And I know what that is in this stage of life. I've, I have an eight and 11-year-old, so it's one thing.

In 10 years, it's gonna probably be a slightly different view. But like, I know what that is. And I think sometimes we, we lose the forest through the trees and we forget like, hey.

I get to decide!

[00:06:37] Crystal: Yeah.

[00:06:38] Jamie Trull: I can make what this is. And then I can take steps to create that life.

Right?

[00:06:44] Crystal: Oh,

[00:06:44] Jamie Trull: Yeah.

[00:06:45] Crystal: and the fact that you said do more of what's working. It reminds me I used to coach high school volleyball

[00:06:50] Jamie Trull: Yeah.

[00:06:50] Crystal: and coaching and teaching were kind of a similar bag I guess. But I realized that a lot of times as leaders of of kids or people.

We tend to give a lot [00:07:00] of energy to what's not working.

And we try

[00:07:03] Jamie Trull: Mm-hmm. Yep.

[00:07:14] Crystal: to make it fit or whatever. And it gets so much easier when you actually take a step back.

maybe instead of trying to convince everybody else that this is really, really great.

Like you said, look at the data and say, wow, this one's working. You know?

[00:07:28] Jamie Trull: Yep. Yeah. If you have a team, right? Or even if you don't, sit down with yourself and be your team.

But like quarterly if you have the conversation, what's working really well, what's not working?

And then it's like, okay, it's just common sense.

Like, oh, let's do more of that thing that's working. And less of that thing that isn't working

[00:07:45] Crystal: Yeah.

[00:07:45] Jamie Trull: Or figure out how to, like, okay, how can we change this thing to try to make it work. And not just continue to do a thing that isn't working. 

[00:07:53] The 80/20 Rule in Business

[00:07:53] Jamie Trull: And I'm, I'm a big believer in the 80 20 rule in general of like.

There is gonna be, you know, 20% of the things that you're doing are gonna generate [00:08:00] 80% of the results, right?

But our time, like if we can continue to refine and say, okay, how do I cut down that 80% that isn't yielding the results?

How do I cut some of that, delegate some of that, you know, whatever, automate some of that?

So that I can focus on the 20% that really is yielding results. Like it's just that constant refining, you know?

And then you get closer and closer to what it is. This is gonna be our best year of business.

Yet, however, we walked away from our biggest seller this year. We did not launch financial fitness formula.

It doesn't mean it's not gonna come back.

It has my heart.

But we had other things like the books and things like that to concentrate on.

I was really scared like, this is our biggest money maker in the year.

What are we gonna do without it?

But it forced me to look at like, okay.

What other things do we have going for us that we can just try to optimize?

[00:08:45] The Power of Data in Business Decisions

[00:08:45] Jamie Trull: And that's the power of data, right?

Looking at the numbers, it's not just about how much money you're making in your p and l and stuff like that.

It's like the numbers behind it that, that tell you the story of your business. They tell you what to do, right?

Just by looking, you're like, oh, I see this [00:09:00] pattern.

And so we just did more of the things that were working, like SEO, right?

That stuff was working for us. And it's gonna be our best year in business.

And I always have been someone who preaches. Like it's not about the hustle, it's not about all of this.

Like, it's about working smarter, not harder.

But I really feel like we put it into practice this year. And I'm seeing it happen in real time.

[00:09:22] Crystal: Yeah.

[00:09:22] Jamie Trull: was still scared there was a piece, even though I say that, I'm like, I was still scared that this was all gonna fall apart.

But it's been, it's been incredible to see what happens when you free up that space and focus on the things that matter.

[00:09:32] Crystal: really cool sign of your humility, too as a leader to be willing to

[00:09:37] Jamie Trull: Yeah.

[00:09:37] Crystal: okay, we've invested so much. But because it doesn't align with the core ethos of what we want to represent, or how we want to live this year out.

We're gonna cut this loose. And like you said, practice what we preach. 

[00:09:52] Overcoming the Sunk Cost Fallacy

[00:09:52] Crystal: And I think that's a lot of, a lot of people, not just business owners, a lot of people are afraid to turn [00:10:00] away from something that they've worked so hard to create. It's like,

[00:10:03] Jamie Trull: Yeah.

[00:10:03] Crystal: invested in this.

It's, a psychological principle called the sunken.

Yes. Yeah, exactly. And so to see it in action where you're willing to, you know, confront the fallacy.

Just because it's no now doesn't mean it's no forever. But being able to prioritize based on data. That's just so cool. It's so cool to see it in action.

[00:10:23] Jamie Trull: Yeah, I actually talk about the sunk cost fallacy in the book. So it's funny you bring that up. 'cause I literally mentioned that. 'cause that's one of the, one of the things that we get in our heads about, right? Like, that's one of the things where we're like, we've invested money in this thing.

And it's almost like, okay, if we pull away from it.

We think that that's a failure. Which is not at all how we need to be looking at data, right?

It's trial and error. And, it's experimenting. And everything we do is getting us closer to what works. And so we don't need to hold so tightly.

When we hold so tightly to things.

Because we're afraid of that moment of having to feel the disappointment or feel whatever it is. Right?

If we could just, if we could just [00:11:00] say, look at it all like more objectively to say, this is all data that's, that's leading me to where I need to go.

The only mistake I can make is not using it, not looking at it. Not refining the vision from it.

Some things are gonna work and some things aren't. That's just how it is. That's life, right?

[00:11:15] Crystal: Yep.

[00:11:16] Jamie Trull: we know this, but we still will hold tight to like, well, you know, uh, a decision that we made, or something like that.

Because it feels like. Scary to let go of it.

[00:11:26] Crystal: Mm-hmm.

[00:11:26] Embracing Iteration and Feedback

[00:11:26] Jamie Trull: and I think that that's the other thing: you can always change your mind.

I don't know why in business, like we think we have to decide things. And that keeps us stuck.

Because we're trying to make all the decisions. I say this as a person who was this way about six months ago. I was stuck in a business idea for like three years. Because I wanted it to be perfect. It's this perfectionism.

And it wasn't until I was like, I know. That it's all about doing and iterating and learning the lessons. And making it better.

And so we're never gonna be able to think ourselves into the perfect product, service, whatever it is. Like it is, putting it [00:12:00] out there in the world.

Getting feedback.

Even if that feedback isn't always what we want to hear, right?

Even if it's hard to hear feedback, it's still going to be helpful to where you end up.

And that's one of those things that perspective gives you, right? Like being in business for multiple years, you can see that.

When you're like, oh. I now see why I had to walk through that to get to here. 'cause otherwise I wouldn't have.

But in the midst of it, there's just so much emotion tied up in the decisions that we make. And so much identity tied up there. That it's really hard to see the forest through the trees. And have perspective of like, Hey, this is gonna be my part of my story, later on. When I'm, you know, successful doing what I wanna do someday.

Right. So that's what I always try to, like, I try to put myself in the future and say like, okay.

I remember a time that I wanted to speak on a stage. And like nobody showed up. And it was really tough.

And I was like, this was, this was not what I expected it to be.

And I remember like on the way home, I literally, I, I kid you not.

I probably have this still [00:13:00] somewhere. I recorded myself. As if.

I was on like a podcast that said like five years in the future, talking about my story.

Of speaking on stages and, and teaching. And I told the story of what I learned.

Like, literally this was right after it happened.

Like, here's what I learned from that experience. And here's how I turned that experience into my success.

Again, it's like hacking your own perspective. You can change the narrative of that story. And once you do that, you're like, oh, okay, I got this. This is gonna be great.

You know? And you can let go of the like negative narrative and the shame and the guilt and the, you know, embarrassment that might come with it in the moment.

[00:13:37] Crystal: Oh man. I knew there was a reason I love working with you. So many reasons. Many reasons. That's awesome. 

[00:13:43] Pre-Order Bonuses and Offers

[00:13:43] Crystal: Okay, so if people pre-order the book, they get lots of bonuses and stuff, right?

Is there anything that you wanna touch base on before we tell 'em where they can get it at?

[00:13:52] Jamie Trull: We love bonuses. We have like over $300 worth of bonuses.

So just by pre-ordering the book. And you can get it anywhere, you can pre-order [00:14:00] it on Amazon, bookshop.org where you can support small businesses. You can pre-order Target, Barnes and Noble, all the places. Audible.

I read the audible version if anybody want. To listen to that, you can go use one of your credits to pre-order it on Audible. We have the Kindle version coming out, so wherever you get your books, wherever you typically like to read you can go and pre-order it. And then if you go to jamie troll.com/hidden profit, you can see all the links to pre-order there.

But then you can also, um, claim your free bonuses. So we have a companion guide that's gonna be coming with it to help make it really actionable. I love step-by-step and actionable, so.

We didn't have room in the book to have like a whole workbook.

So we made one. So that you're gonna get for free for pre-ordering it.

And then you're also gonna get invited to a live event that we're doing in November, which is gonna be a planning event for planning your best year.

So I'm really excited to have this planning event and bring people in, but you can't, you, well, you can get in without buying a book, but the ticket costs more than the book costs.

So I would probably just buy the book and get the ticket for free.

[00:14:59] Crystal: [00:15:00] Yeah. Oh, that's awesome. I've got so many ideas. Like I, even with my SEO squad, I'm like, this would be a good little book club for us to do. So important!

[00:15:07] Jamie Trull: Yes. Yep. We're talking about your bigger book club too.

[00:15:09] Crystal: it's so

[00:15:09] Jamie Trull: Yep.

[00:15:10] Crystal: it's not what I teach. But we could learn it,

[00:15:11] Jamie Trull: Mm-hmm.

[00:15:12] Crystal: and go through it together.

[00:15:13] Jamie Trull: Yep.

[00:15:13] Crystal: It would be really fun.

[00:15:14] Connecting with Jamie Troll

[00:15:14] Crystal: is there any other place that people can connect with you? Because I, I know you have a giant Facebook group if people haven't heard of it.

[00:15:21] Jamie Trull: Yep. Financial literacy for women business owners on Facebook is the group. You can come join us.

Also, YouTube is a great place. I'd love for you to come over to YouTube. There's tons of free information over on YouTube if you wanna kind of, you know, give yourself a crash course and whether it's.

It's time to be an S corporation or if you wanna hire your kids or whatever it is, we have tons of information for free over there.

So go and like, and subscribe. Or smash that like button as my son would tell me I'm supposed to say.

And yeah, those are probably the best places to find me. Or just jamietrull.com. You can see everything that we have to offer.

[00:15:54] Crystal: Awesome. Okay. So I will put all those links below. But especially for Hidden [00:16:00] Profit.

I got mine off the Amazon. Woo hoo.

[00:16:01] Jamie Trull: Yay.

[00:16:02] Crystal: I do need to join the group because I'm excited about all of the bonuses. I love a good bonus myself.

Again, I love spreadsheets. And I know that you are the spreadsheet queen. So I'm excited for all the resources that come with this.

So yeah, guys: your website. It's just one part of your business.

Really making sure that all of the work that you do on the front end to bring in that traffic and to bring in those clients. That you maximize the potential of that. That's, that's where Jamie just shines.

[00:16:31] Final Thoughts and Farewell

[00:16:31] Crystal: I'm super excited to be a part of helping tell people about your book.

[00:16:35] Jamie Trull: It all goes hand in hand.

[00:16:36] Crystal: Yeah.

[00:16:37] Jamie Trull: I really appreciate you having me on here, crystal.

And I just think you're so smart and I love you. 

[00:16:42] Crystal: All right, guys, I'll catch you next time. Thanks again, Jamie.

[00:16:45] Jamie Trull: Thanks, crystal.

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