[00:00:00] Kelly: If you wanna be successful at anything, first know what you wanna be successful about and get obsessive about it. But then there's three things. Who do you listen to?

[00:00:08] Kelly: Who do you surround yourself with? And what are you willing to give up? You know, this one is the one that, like, when we look at our life, what are we willing to give up? Time, money, Netflix, sleep. I mean, I don't, I don't want you to give up sleep. I don't like the 4:30 mom that's like, " Get up at 4:30. Go to the gym.

[00:00:24] Kelly: Come back before your kid gets out of bed. Make 'em breakfast. Take 'em to school." That's not healthy for me. But for me, maybe I don't watch the second episode of Outer Banks at night, or maybe, you know, I... maybe I trim something else. 

Welcome to the Simple and Smart SEO Show

[00:00:38] Crystal: Welcome to the simple and smart SEO show podcast!

[00:00:40] Crystal: I'm your host, Crystal Waddell, here to bridge the gap between SEO strategy and real world business success. By bringing you insights, stories, and conversations from the SEO community and beyond.

[00:00:51] Crystal: Grab a coffee. Or your favorite tea. And let's dive into Smarter SEO for your business

Welcome and Introductions

[00:00:56] Crystal: I'm back with a good friend, Kelly Miller, [00:01:00] AKA Health Coach Kel, and we are talking food and SEO today. So for listeners who don't know you yet, Kelly how do you describe what you do? 

[00:01:09] Kelly: I help women, busy women who want freedom and lifestyle. I like feel like I need to get into the mic for this one. Who want that laptop lifestyle. Balance, food and energy, clarity, capacity, all those things that we put to the bottom of our to-do list. I help them move it to the top so that they do have the energy, the freedom, the lifestyle to get through the day with calm and a little bit more ease maybe.

[00:01:34] Kelly: That's my goal

Kelly’s Founder Journey

[00:01:36] Crystal: you've got this marketing and e-commerce and SEO background, and you're now a health coach.

[00:01:42] Crystal: And a founder of a food subscription brand. Like, how did that all happen?

[00:01:47] Kelly: Well, if I had Oprah money, I would travel the world, mostly the US, and I would work with female founders one-on-one. That's what lights me up. I wanna see other businesswomen win, but I also have to take care of [00:02:00] me. So there was always a fork in the road, like, what do I do first? Do I go help her with her business and marketing?

[00:02:07] Kelly: And I've done that here and there. Or do I return back to me and what my clients need? Because they are the entry-level founders that could be bigger if they could get this health element of their foundation locked in. And then with my personal journey of being a young mom and cancer in my early 40s, I realize how important it really is as the buzzword and the keyword now is perimenopause, and everyone's like, "Well, it's just my hormones."

[00:02:36] Kelly: How about it might be your food? Or your relationship with food? So that's, that's where I've come from listening, and you've helped me a lot over the years. Really listen, ' cause we've tried, and, and I've been on a interview with you years ago. We've tried to find the keywords for the cookbook or, you know, what I'm trying to do.

[00:02:55] Kelly: And yes, I can teach people how to cook, sure, but that's not connecting to their [00:03:00] why, and I like working with certain women that light me up, and those are women that have a voice and a passion. So yeah, it, it's kinda... I had to l- go a long way around to learn so that I can actually help with the right words. The triggers, the questions that they're asking, and the things that they're complaining about now.

DMs as Keyword Gold

[00:03:17] Crystal: So that's a good segue into, like, why do you believe some of the best keyword research happens in the DMs versus using some sort of keyword research tool?

[00:03:26] Kelly: Well, I met you as a moderator of a, well, it grew to about 7,500 person Facebook group. I think we were about like at 4,000 in 2018, '19 when you and I met all talking about Pinterest. And listening to these women, and that's where the aha connected, listening to these women, knowing what they wanted to do, however, hearing what they said in the comments, which was like, "I'm too busy, I'm just burnt out, I can't think clearly, the brain fog. Engaging and understanding those comments and those questions [00:04:00] more so than listening to the data analytics helped me.

[00:04:04] Kelly: You know, like I could go in Ubersuggest or, you know, all those other, and those tell me the analytics, but those aren't telling me what my ideal client is actually struggling with. And it's harder to, I feel, mine or think of. Like, we've been in Surfer together. I'm like, "Crystal, what keywords do I use to connect?"

[00:04:23] Kelly: And you're like, "Well, healthy cooking is healthy cooking, but it might not connect to the person you wanna work with." So yeah, in the comments pulls out the language, I feel.

Posting and Ghosting

[00:04:32] Crystal: And what about posting and ghosting? Like, 'Cause I think that was one of the things you said that, a lot of business owners don't understand that can impact them negatively. 

[00:04:41] Kelly: I think it's a disconnect from their client, first and foremost. If you're using social media, if you're using these platforms for quote-unquote free reach, it's only gonna get you so far. I mean, it might get you discovered or it might give your client some trust if they're finding you in different places and they're reconnecting with you on social and seeing them, [00:05:00] but you're missing those keywords, you're missing those comments, you're missing those languages.

[00:05:03] Kelly: More importantly, I like commenting on my competitors or my neighboring businesses or like businesses.

[00:05:13] Kelly: That my ideal clients are listening to or paying for. I like commenting on their sites as well because the way algorithms work, you're organically gonna get matched to those people, and it's a social proof way.

[00:05:27] Kelly: So I jumped like three different topics. So posting and ghosting is one way. I think it's very me-centered. It's very, I'm gonna pay for ads. I don't like social media. And again, that's fine, but I think you're missing out on the connecting with your ideal client if she or he is actually on those platforms spending their time searching for solutions to their problems.

[00:05:51] Kelly: So commenting back, engaging with them helps you create better products, in my experience.

Social SEO in Zero Click

[00:05:57] Crystal: And one of the things I think we need to connect here too is the [00:06:00] fact that with the rise of LLMs and people searching in a variety of different ways, and mainly Google going to this zero-click format where you can do the best SEO in the world, and guess what? You may not get the click to your website anymore. I feel like social is resurging. It's being resurrected from this place of, I thought Instagram reach was dead. I thought all of that, the algorithms and stuff had put small business owners out of the game. But it's like this shift from Google and their zero-click from traditional search has now put social media platforms back in play. So I just wanna, just reiterate that's why that's so important now, and I wondered if you thought the same thing.

[00:06:41] Kelly: Yeah. I mean, and I even see it 'cause Instagram's my home platform that I'm on the most, and with everybody face to camera pushing their comfort zone and connecting with that little dot on your camera instead of the selfie or instead of just talking in stories.

[00:06:58] Kelly: Like [00:07:00] creating a voice and a narrative that someone can connect with the person instead of the AI avatar or the AI script.

[00:07:06] Kelly: Let's be messy. Let's be ourselves. Let's let our customers connect with us if we're spending time and ad dollars on these platforms. And then all the up and coming Google SEO connection is just even better. If we can learn to tweak those things and be found in Google with that trustworthy content. And then we actually respond to them or, you know, show up, I think, I think that's the strategy for now

ManyChat and Autoresponders

[00:07:29] Crystal: And we had talked a little bit about, features like ManyChat,

[00:07:33] Crystal: What's your opinion on like autoresponders Is it

[00:07:35] Kelly: I lo-

[00:07:36] Crystal: to use those? Would you recommend against it? What are your thoughts?

[00:07:39] Kelly: I recommend for it because you as a solo entrepreneur, solo business owner, f- small foundational level business. You can't be everywhere, nor is it good for our mental health. I push books and analog and getting back into the kitchen and doing things with your hands, gardening.

[00:07:56] Kelly: I don't wanna be on my phone all the time, but when I do, I wanna [00:08:00] engage with people who are engaging with me. So I'm, I'm big into energy matching. So what I would say is a ManyChat is a great dopamine hit that gives the person what they want when they want it. I am starting to learn how to use it, and I worked really hard with my Claude and Chat.

[00:08:16] Kelly: Honestly, I'm loving Chat a little bit more as far as his words right now. Claude, I have to yell at constantly. But my Chat is kind of understanding my verbiage and my cadence. So what I would say is those follow-up messages, make them sound like you. Don't just be like, "Here's your link." Or like, you know, "Hey, I'm out in the garden.

[00:08:35] Kelly: Here's your link." I, make it as fun, but I did do a really cool sequence, and it was too cool. I got too fancy with it. So keep it simple, but have it sound like you the best you can.

Transparency in DMs

[00:08:46] Crystal: Yeah, I have a, a little bit of an anecdote with one of those chatbots and just really social media in general. I wanna, throw some caution out there or just some, just some experience personally because from a customer perspective, it's really [00:09:00] important that we know who we're chatting with on the other side. So I'm like, even if it's an autoresponder or even if you have a virtual assistant working for you, I personally would suggest that you have that person identify themselves versus posting on your behalf as though they were you. Because I think that's the worst kind of brutal media- social digital truth, is that so many times we're not actually talking to the business owner, or we think we're talking to somebody that is not that person. And th- and there's something about that just feels very, like ick. I can't really describe the word, but there's so- it feels just unsafe about it.

[00:09:38] Kelly: It's disingenuous. I

[00:09:40] Crystal: yeah.

[00:09:40] Kelly: 100% agree, and five, six years ago when I was working with bigger influencers, they would have someone in their DMs, and I actually just recently left another food brand, and they just comment as the brand, and, and that was one of my biggest pitches. I said, "Wait, no, if it's me, it's, ' Hey, team blah blah [00:10:00] company, this is Kelly.'"

[00:10:01] Kelly: You know? And I like commenting on that, and then the people are like, "Oh, hey, I talked to Kelly," or, "Hey, I have a problem with this," or, " I'm so happy I connected with you." Not brand name, because who want... Who cares if you're talking with mug people? You know, and yeah, I 100% agree, but that's my point. I got fancy in saying, " Beep boop, this is Kelly's Robot," and it was just too much copy, where for that particular flow it needed to be like, "Here's a link.

[00:10:27] Kelly: Thanks." You know? And I could put little emojis in there to contextualize it. I think we all know it's not me

[00:10:33] Kelly: You, know?

[00:10:33] Crystal: and that's another thing that's been freeing for me this year, is I let go of some of the tech because I thought, "Oh, I need the best tech because when I blow up, then I'll have all this access to the flows and all the fancy stuff or whatever." And I realized, I was like, let's be honest with yourself, Crystal.

[00:10:49] Crystal: You're not getting so many DMs and so many emails that you can't just hit respond and reply back to these people." One of the things that helped me was just really bringing my tech stack [00:11:00] down. And then I also wanted to say anecdotally from the other perspective, I was a part of a big group, and the influencer, coach, whatever, she had brought on her team and, she had a new member of her team, and the new member was asking questions.

[00:11:13] Crystal: And I remember there was a part of me that was like, don't want to talk to this new member. I wanna talk to the big dog," but it also made me realize oh my gosh, there's 1,000 other people in this group. One person can't handle everybody, and then as newer people came into the group, they recognized the person who was in charge of the group as the authority there, and it just really helped the business run overall.

[00:11:36] Crystal: But I love the transparency of the person who owned the group, that they were like, "Hey, look, I need help. I'm bringing in help. This is the person to go to with these questions." And even though it was like, "But we want, the main influencer," it still over time really built trust with the community because, oh, we know we can go to such and such for, these questions.

[00:11:57] Crystal: So I just, I thought that was really important.

[00:11:59] Kelly: [00:12:00] Yeah, clarity. I think that's probably the biggest thing I, I feel on social right now, and maybe that's working over in the SEO space too, and this Google no-click, it's clarity and transparency. Like, stop trying to dupe people. People are a lot smarter than they, you think. They know that if you have millions of followers, you're not answering every single DM.

[00:12:21] Kelly: You know, I mean, and if you are, you're not admitting it and being like, "Oh, just DM me. It's all me." No, it's not. N- not when you're traveling and speaking and, you know, it's... And those types of influencers are not getting the reach. The little micro ones are, who are very authentic and showing up in their real life.

[00:12:37] Kelly: I think it's really key in that regard.

Owning Your Perspective

[00:12:39] Crystal: And for so long, I thought it was important to refer to people who are bigger than I was, like, as to get credibility and authority, borrow their credibility and authority. I learned this here. And then I realized people can then learn that from them. If I'm always referencing them, I'm like a mouthpiece for their business. Instead of sharing the new ideas that I had put together [00:13:00] from what I'd learned. And so that's one of the, my favorite things over the last couple years is I've just realized oh my gosh, like I have a unique perspective on SEO and e-commerce or, Shopify stores or that type of thing. And I want to encourage anybody who's listening to really consider your unique perspective because you do have one. You've learned things, you've applied things, and now you can share that instead of feeling like you have to lean on someone else's expertise to have the kind of authority that you have from your own experience.

[00:13:27] Kelly: Yes.

[00:13:28] Crystal: Yeah.

[00:13:29] Kelly: Very true

Obsessing Over Questions

[00:13:30] Crystal: So you said that you that SEO has taught you how to obsess over good questions. Can you walk us through what that means and, like, how you find them, how you apply them, how you answer them?

[00:13:40] Kelly: Gosh, you are the huge instructor of teaching me how to mine client language, and you really brought that home for me. And then how to show up in Google and the keywords and, and just the way that maps down. I guess it's not as easy as you're giving me credit for. [00:14:00] I have to constantly, like, have that rubber band on my wrist and just be like, " Go down to the symptoms.

[00:14:05] Kelly: Go down to their problems. What do they need right now?" And then that mining and that curiosity is what I need to remind myself to have all the time. Cause it's, it's a, it's a muscle I have to work, 'Cause you have to really listen.

[00:14:18] Kelly: 'Cause what is it called? The curse of a coach, you know the, what they need, and you're like, "Oh, I just know what you need. You need to start your day with blah, blah..." You know, and I could just tell you what you need, but you might be saying so many things that I'm not listening to. So it's something that I think we have to force ourselves before we start selling and being the expert and, and sitting on that pedestal of, "I know what's gonna fix you." To drop down and really, really listen

[00:14:43] Crystal: I had an in-person situation the other day where I was speaking and attending a chamber of commerce dinner local to me. And after the dinner, one of the photographers came up to me and she said, "Oh my gosh," "I need a website. I know I need a website, [00:15:00] and I need to talk to you." But she's "It just seems so overwhelming."

[00:15:04] Crystal: And she said, "I have a farm, I have four kids, I have this business. And I'm constantly like needing to update every month, and I just don't have the time." I wish I had taken that moment to just listen a little bit better, but one of the deficiencies I have also is like not selling. Or not telling people, "I can do this for you," or whatever.

[00:15:25] Crystal: But obviously, she just heard that I could do it for her. She was interested but she was telling me everything that was keeping her from what she felt like was the answer. And I felt like I could have asked more follow-ups in that situation, because it's what... what would that next step for her look like?

[00:15:42] Crystal: I walked away from that conversation not exactly knowing. I knew that she felt overwhelmed, but I didn't know what the next step looked like for her to be able to fully commit to it. Because she just felt so overwhelmed. It was like, "Yes, I know I need to do that, but I've got all this other stuff, so now I'm not even gonna think about it [00:16:00] again."

Remove Before You Add

[00:16:00] Kelly: So that makes me think of a really good point. I'm working on vibe coding a little user experience lovable situation, and it's called Cut the Crap: You're Lying to Yourself and Your Coach. And because it's not necessarily what she, busy farm owner, business owner, mother of four, needs. Maybe it's something she needs to remove.

[00:16:20] Kelly: So the same goes with our health. So she may need to remove the need for that website by hiring you or somebody to actually remove that for her. I think of that with health, too. There's so many of us that wanna add in, whether we're trying to do all these things, "I just need to add in. I don't have time to make the smoothie.

[00:16:38] Kelly: I don't have time..." Well, what can you remove? And sometimes there's something getting in our way that we're either lying to ourselves about that, that we can do it, we'll just need to make time, we need to make more money, we need to find the right keyword, we need to blow up. You know, similar to you just saying, "I need reduce my tech stack because I'm paying for all these things that I don't really need."

[00:16:56] Kelly: It's not impossible to... But it's also, for [00:17:00] my, my health-minded women, they're on the supplements, they're doing all this stuff, and some of them are still drinking their wine every day. And believe me, I love wine, but maybe you need to remove that to see how your body reacts in different ways. Or maybe there's something that's really getting in your way.

[00:17:14] Kelly: So I think that's something that we also need to stop, and what do we need to remove? So it could be tech stack, it could be delegating, it could be your too much wine. I don't know. But it's not always adding in.

[00:17:27] Crystal: Yeah, I think a lot of us when you're chronically online, you're building a business online you're also getting fed constantly the tips, the health tips, and "You need to do this and you need to do that." And I remember thinking, " Okay, but when am I gonna have time to do X, Y, Z?"

[00:17:42] Crystal: It's "When am I gonna have time to do the cold plunge or the meditation and the blah, blah, blah, the stretching?" All of the things. And there was someone who, I can't even remember who said this, but it was, like, such an aha moment for me. It was like, you know what? Sometimes if you are a woman who has a job, has a family, has, other [00:18:00] obligations, and you can't implement all of this self-care, you're just gonna have to get up earlier, and that's your self-care. even though it wasn't what I wanted to hear, it did force me to realize, okay, I'm either gonna have to take something out,

[00:18:14] Crystal: or because there's no place to fit it, I am gonna have to get up early, to do that. And so I think I, it... started with the get up early thing, and I was like, "I don't really like this."

[00:18:24] Crystal: And so it forced me to then prune my life and make a decision there's something here that I can let go of to fit this other thing in that I like better.

Audit Your Day and Focus

[00:18:32] Kelly: Let me insert these three little thoughts for you. I, I learned this a few years ago. I talk about this, and I think it's a really interesting process. If you wanna be successful at anything, first know what you wanna be successful about and get obsessive about it. But then there's three things. Who do you listen to?

[00:18:48] Kelly: Who do you surround yourself with? And what are you willing to give up? You know, this one is the one that, like, when we look at our life, what are we willing to give up? Time, money, Netflix, sleep. I mean, I don't, [00:19:00] I don't want you to give up sleep. I don't like the 4:30 mom that's like, " Get up at 4:30. Go to the gym.

[00:19:05] Kelly: Come back before your kid gets out of bed. Make 'em breakfast. Take 'em to school." That's not healthy for me. But for me, maybe I don't watch the second episode of Outer Banks at night, or maybe, you know, I... maybe I trim something else. But surrounding yourself with really good people, and that's why I love podcasts like this and online communities that we have now versus 20 years ago, we didn't have the access to like minds and common voices and community and support.

[00:19:33] Kelly: But yeah, that's what you're saying. That's number three. Like, what are you willing to give up to get what you want? And it doesn't need to be an insane thing, but you do have to audit. Audit your day. I love that.

[00:19:43] Crystal: And when you talk about auditing your day, it, that relates back to SEO too because, so many time- it, even into digital marketing and everything because

[00:19:51] Kelly: Yeah

[00:19:52] Crystal: like we need to do it all, right? And I think as a business owner, I had a fear of I need to really, I need to be everything to [00:20:00] everybody.

[00:20:00] Crystal: I used to have that motto with my business. It's like, "Oh, yes, we can make that," that was the answer because

[00:20:06] Kelly: I remember that.

[00:20:07] Crystal: Yeah. So people would say, "Oh, can you do such and such?" "Oh, yes, we can make that." But then I realized there's probably some things that I don't wanna make, so I probably should go ahead and take that out, first of all. But second of all, once I started thinking about my customer really saying, "Okay, let me just think about this one product that I offer," let's say like a senior night gift. Let's say, " Okay how deep can I go into a senior night gift?" It's oh my gosh, I can actually go into fall, spring, and winter, it's oh my gosh, okay. So now I've already, off into, branched off into all of these other things. It's like, okay, I can go fall. What can I go into fall? I can go into football. I can go into soccer. I can go into cheerleading. I can go into volleyball. So it's amazing how just focusing on one thing actually opened up so many more opportunities that were s- so more, such... It was more closely aligned with that [00:21:00] one thing. And so I wondered if you've discovered that too. By asking those questions, it actually opens up a whole world that you didn't know existed that was actually kinda self-contained over here.

From Cookbook to Subscription

[00:21:11] Kelly: Well, that might parlay into the magazine subscription that I'm creating. It's like a founder launch right now, and we're all just kind of putting our heads together and designing it now. It came out of, first and foremost, I created a big cookbook, and I took everything I knew that someone needed to get off their device, stop being on Google when they're cooking, food facts, nutrition, I don't...

[00:21:33] Kelly: And everything. It's like health coaching. It's everything. But I put so much into it, and the founder launch did okay. But it wasn't what my ideal client really wanted, 'cause she's still busy. You know? The, the book is six pounds. It costs a lot to make. It costs a lot. This thing is a textbook. So when people are like, "You wrote a cookbook?"

[00:21:50] Kelly: I said, "No, honey girl, I wrote a textbook." There's, there's facts. This is your encyclopedia. And then when I pull back and I'm listening to their immediate needs, they're like, they don't [00:22:00] want food facts of kohlrabi today. They might later, but that's not their immediate problem today. So listening to their problems, I have a lot of friends that are readers that like a good book, and they don't stop long enough to do what they need to do.

[00:22:16] Kelly: So it, it came into a place where I'm like, "I'm gonna accept who I am as Health Coach Kel. I'm not gonna keep branching into marketing. I'm not gonna keep branching into business coaching. I wanna help this woman focus and have a mental reset so that when she sees me, she does a check-in, if it's once a month, ' Oh, wait a minute.

[00:22:33] Kelly: Am I on target? Are my healthy habits going?'" I don't want them to go six months, a year. I mean, I let my cancer go nine months, and it was really bad before I got to the surgeon. I don't want anyone else to let their habits or a health scare get out of whack so far. So the goal is, okay, I gotta get in front of them.

[00:22:51] Kelly: I gotta give them something that they don't allow themselves, but yet make it small and tangible and usable. I took a lot of these little [00:23:00] questions, and I went down, down deep into what do they need right now to stop and, and have a gift for themselves? ' Cause they're running around. I mean, you know.

[00:23:08] Kelly: It's, it's you. You're a busy mom. You're traveling. You got your kids. You got your kids' events. You got your husband. You wanna travel. You have, oh my gosh, so many things. So imagine having a farm and four kids, going back to the woman that you met. She's really busy. And she doesn't stop to pause and sit down and, like, settle. And understand what's kinda going on and maybe try one thing a month.

[00:23:28] Kelly: So I guess to answer your question, it's like, how does that work? I believe 100% you gotta focus and get really good on one thing.

[00:23:35] ​